Specifically what I want to talk to my wife about:
-Ask her point blank if the affair is ongoing as I'm almost sure it is. If it is, fine, it just confirms what I know to be true but I want to get to a point were the little games stop. I want to tell her that it seems like we have an arrangement in our marriage that I don't remember agreeing to. I don't want to argue with her or give her an ultimatum, just let her know that I am aware of what's going on and for her to stop trying to be SO secretive. I don't want it thrown in my face, but it's not like she's doing a good job of it right now anyway.
-I want to tell her that I know his name, what he looks like, what he drives, where they meet and that they talk on the phone all the time so she gets the full picture that I know what's going on, not that it really will matter to her but it will to me. I will tell her that I didn't even have to snoop to find these things out, it's because she's been so cavalier about the A that I just learned these things by osmosis. If I wanted to, I could know a lot more and she knows it.
-Ask her to bring her phone in from her car (where it's been ever since she confessed to the affair). It is so obvious that she goes into the garage to check it every 10 minutes. Why not just set it on vibrate and keep it inside. That way she can check it all the time and I don't have to be reminded of it every time I hear the door open and close.
-Clarifying if she is willing to go to counseling with me or not. She keeps saying maybe and we'll see. If she finally just says no, then fine but I want to see if I can get her to go on Thursday if she is open to it.
-Finally, just let her know that despite all that she's doing and going through, and all that I am going to be doing to try to improve myself, I am here for her and in a way that doesn't sacrifice my self esteem, I will continue to be whenever she wants to address these things.
So far, I have resisted the urge to talk with her based on a plethora of advice from you all and the books I have read. It's just so hard.
I just can't help feeling that just a little more honesty between us right now would ease some tension. Who knows, maybe I am straying from the path and need you all to smack me back onto it.
Please comment o sage protagonists.
My advice (and I need to listen to myself sometimes too): Do not talk about the other person!!! If she is still involved with him she will become defensive and lie. She is infatuated with him, and may feel angry and cold towards you. Or she may tell you that it is over because that is what you want to hear. Just don't go there.
You can tell her how you feel but also take responsibility for your part in the breakdown and apologize for it. Express your unconditional love for her and tell her that if and when she is ready you would like her to honestly discuss your relationship with you and come up with baby steps to improve it.
Again, work on patience. I know, easier said than done - you are a Mr. Fix-it. You can't fix her but you can fix yourself. If you asked your self to write down a list of your faults you probably couldn't come up with too many, right? But what if your wife were to write up a list of your faults, would she run out of paper? We tend to see ourselves through rose colored glasses. Therefore the place to begin improving your relationship is with yourself. You can choose to continue to love your wife in spite of what she has done and in spite of your feelings. Do not let your negative feelings dominate your thoughts and behavior - again you are only hurting yourself. So, go out and have a good day!! Make new friends! Do something 180 - like the running, that is great and will make you feel great too! Hope to hear back, Sheila
I am running as of last night. Can't say it feels too good (hurts) but it surely got me out of the house, but not too far away, and let me calm down a bit.
As for the talking thing, yea, I hear you about the lies and such. I think she would lie, or continue to anyway.
As for my faults, there you are wrong. I could probably never have enough paper for those but I will admit that I have only realized many of them since this all began. I really wish there was a way for me to control my emotions (just can't do it when I talk to her about the R) and express more of what I understand about myself and more importantly, her. It's one of those situations where I think she feels too little too late but considering I did NOTHING before to improve on faults I did not even know I had, how could it be too late.
UPDATE: To add a little more detail to my sitch, my wife's family is wealthy and she has always relied on them for financial support, and continues to to this day. They actually make it possible for some of the lifestyle we live but even without their help, I do ok on my own. Since she has never worked, and feels that there is much to be gained by staying at least off of her parents s--t list, and getting a D would definitely do that 100%, I think it is one of the major motivating factors keeping her in our relationship right now. I don't think the OM has money but I could be wrong. Point is that I don't know what leg I have to stand on in all of this because while it may seem like she's willing to give us a chance still, I know for a fact that in addition to the kids well-being, she is considering other factors. Is this a good thing? I guess anything that keeps her engaged is good but not to the point where she just goes through the motions to keep our R intact so she can milk her parents for more. Really, I think this situation with her parents is one of the things she resents in life but I don't think she resents that as much as she does our marriage and would be willing to so easily give it up. I guess that is an ace I can hold onto for awhile but if I see that it is all about that, then maybe I need to begin to use it to force the issue one way or another, and if she's trying to make me file so she can claim victimhood in the eyes of her family then I swear by all that I am I will not give that to her. She needs to put in the work if she wants out. I will not give her the satisfaction. I still love this woman with all my heart and I want to show her that without pressure but I am also getting to the point where I am feeling used. Learning about yourself and trying to ensure your own happiness gives you insight to how other people operate in situations like this. Love without strings, self esteem without hate.
I am doing the same thing and trying not to talk about the OM! I have kept it up for 3 long hard days, and as I said in my own posting it feels like there is a big "pink" elephant in the room and both of us deny seeing even though it is standing right under our noses! No advice except I can tell you that I am tryig not to acknowledge the OM at all, and let my wife sort things out! One thing I realized earli on in my Seperation when I went over an old journal last nite is that my wife finds me more attractive when I am happy, positive, and upbeat! So that is what I am doing. Is it alittle acting yes! But sometimes you hav to act as if nothing is wrong and you are going on with life to add some mystery and intrique to your W! That is what I am doing! Stay in touch and hopefully I will have a success story soon!
Tim
my story http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1049617&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
Arrgghh! Typing forever only to loose it in cyberspace....
I will try to remember what I wrote. Totally, you are over analyzing and obsessing again. Put up that stop sign. Don't be a slave to your hostile emotions and negative attitude. Without realizing it you will be accomplishing exactly the opposite of what you want.
Tim, way to go!! Guard you attitudes and actions and keep them positive.
I know, we think we look spineless. Again, we are projecting what they think of us. We know we are not spineless. We know we have faults, and we are going to work on improving them. Accept that is is "sick" and "unhealthy" to believe that you have the power to control enough to fix, correct, change, heal or resuce your spouse. Practice letting go of the things/people in life over which you have no control or power to change.
I really am trying not to project anything damaging! I know that is what hurt my stitch when we were in Mexico. I projected negativity, animosity, and talked about the OM on our romantic holiday....and look what happened when I got back! She got right on the phone to the OM and is starting to re-establish her relationship! I can't change what has happened so I need to learn from it and move forward by being positive and not project any more negativity! (Which by the way is very hard) I to hope that my W is not going thru the motions to make me happy, and I truly believe she is! IS this good or bad I am not sure. It does show she is sensitive to my feelings, but I do not like the uncertain feeling in the house right now! I did forget to tell you that my W is under alot of stress from school so that also factors into her actions and behaviors!
Tim
my story http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1049617&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
Who, me? I'm not pissed at you at all. I love what you contribute. I have just been off reading other peoples' threads. As for us not being spineless, well I hope so. I know I feel pretty spineless most of the time. You wanna know the kicker, that's the word my wife used to describe herself. She said she was spineless all her life. Of course I told her she's always had a spine with me but I could see where she would feel that way.
Journaling ...and I need an intervention NOW! Stop me before I do something I will regret!
Well folks, this may be a turning point. My W just called and asked me if there was any way for me to change my hair appointment to tomorrow.
W: Hey, it's me, can you hear me (it was windy).
M: Yes, I can here you.
W: Can you change your appointment to tomorrow?
M: Not really, why?
W: Well, I wanted to go out for a few hours.
M: Ok, well...
W: I just needed to get s5 some new pants. I'm shopping now but I could not find what I wanted. I just wanted to go to the mall and see what they had.
M: Well, I had to book 2 weeks out as it is so I doubt I can get an new appointment for tomorrow.
W: Ok, fine. It's ok.
M: Why don't you go tomorrow?
W: (no answer to that) It's ok, if you could have changed it, fine, if not it's fine too.
M: Ok. See you later.
W: See ya.
Ok, well of course I'm now on edge. Of course she's trying to see the OM. I am now more determined than ever to have a conversation setting some boundaries on this thing and letting her know that if we're playing the game then let's just play it in the open.
Actually I called her back...
M: Hey, if you need to make plans, why not just go when I get home.
W: No, I don't want to be out late. I have things to do tonight.
M: Ok, just trying to help.
Yea, I know, bad DBer but I thought it was the least I could do to offer her a solution to her problem (oops, old me again).
What do I do. I can't keep this up the way it is now. I can't keep pretending not to know what she's up to and the more she lies to me, the more I hate this. It seems like I would be happier if she'd just be honest and stop all the games. Does that make sense?
I feel as if I am devoid of the DB spirit right now. Maybe I just feel that I can't DB and contemplate R talk at the same time. I really feel like I need to discuss this and get some things out in the open. Most of you who are with a WAS continuing an affair seems to know a lot more about it than I do about my W's. I don't know if I really want to know but this constant deception is killing me even faster.
