My question is how does me "letting" an affair continue, all the while "working on myself" and staying calm and rationale help my wife understand what she's doing to me every time she's with him? I know what the book says about me needing to change things so she sees there is a different life to be had from the one she walked away from, and I know that this is important for me no matter what effect it has on her but again, doesn't me being calm and seemingly unaffected by her thoughtless, heartless actions just enable her to feel ok about them? I mean, she's had years to build up a tolerance for hurting me because I have not been what I needed to be and I am to expect that left to her own devices, she'll just snap to her senses and realize the pain she's causing, break off what seems to be a very fulfilling affair, and come back ready to work on us? It is a very hard pill to swallow and I don't know how long I can just let this exist before I go crazy!
My question is how does me "letting" an affair continue, all the while "working on myself" and staying calm and rationale help my wife understand what she's doing to me every time she's with him?
You're thinking your W is considering your feelings, but she's pushed that aside so as to consider her own and only her own foremost. "What she's doing to you" is in truth what you're doing to yourself as a reaction to her actions, she's not in an affair in order to do something to you, but for what she's getting out of it.
She's going to do what she wants to do, feels she needs to do. You have no control over the affair continuing or not. Affairs can fizzle out of their own accord, so in the interim, you doing your part to make yourself the better option is not a bad way to go. Remember that the breakdown in your relationship didn't happen because of the affair, the affair came later. The A is just a symptom of things gone wrong, and reflects on her inability to maturely work on your relationship at this time.
she's had years to build up a tolerance for hurting me because I have not been what I needed to be and I am to expect that left to her own devices, she'll just snap to her senses and realize the pain she's causing, break off what seems to be a very fulfilling affair, and come back ready to work on us?
She had time, not really for building up a tolerance for hurting you, but for building a wall behind which she wouldn't be hurt by you any more. It's that wall that blocks her from bearing the damage that she's doing to those around her. So, no, there is no "snapping to her senses", it will take time for that wall to come down, just as it took time for it to be built brick by brick.
You have to stop seeing this as something being done against you, and see it for what it is, something which is all about for her. From what I get in your Newcomer's thread, your sitch is relatively young, she's emotionally divorced from you, and most probably in a PA with the OP, yet she seems that she can't let go of you entirely. She's either looking to get out of your relationship and have you make the break for her, or she's giving you a wake up call (but I think it leans to the former as she's feeding you lines to have you make a decision to let her go, and is making moves to be with the OM freely without your interference), so she revealed the affair to you. I also think that her telling you "not to worry" is probably linked to your reactions around her and that's her way of placating you and holding you off until things are in place for her to exit, rather than on any basis in fact.
The best thing you can do right now, IMO, is stop personalizing her actions, don't put faith in her words, start pursuing your own interests and fill up your time with that, letting her go (emotionally) to do what she feels she needs to do, because as hard as that may be for you, and as much as that's not what you want to have happen right now, what you do desire to have happen isn't likely going to happen, and doing the above is more likely to create some void between you that she may be more prone to fill, rather than build the wall.
Ok. I get the "it's about her" part but at some point I have to make it about me for my sake. If I am going to "change" and "work on our marriage alone" as the DB book says to do, then I feel that it's not consistent with that to simply ignore something that makes me so unhappy. I KNOW it's beyond my control to make the affair stop or be something it's not, but what IS in my control is my reaction to it. The problem is that without knowing IF there is still an affair to react to (or not) it is left without closure and that takes away a set of decisions I feel I need to make (stay, go, ask her to go, accept and prepare for the worst, accept and prepare for the best, none of the above). Again, I don't know how you are with someone for a decade, all the while having them as a source of security, love, comfort, affection, conversation, and yes damnit, some self esteem, and over the course of a couple days/weeks, separate your feelings surrounding those parts of your life from her. Great, live for yourself. I get it, and I have done it in my life but when I got married, I agreed to live with this person in sickness and health, for better or for worse till death do us part. Now forgive me for sounding too old fashioned, but a mid-life crisis could be considered sickness. It can't get much worse than an affair. I want to live up to my vows, not just for the kids, because I believe in them, the devastation it will cause if we divorce, but for my love of her and my belief that she DOES have love for me that can resurface. I am not blind. I know what I need to do but without hope beyond that expression of my beliefs, I am lost as to how to do those thing. Sadly, and against most advice I find here, I am not entitled to, nor should I get that hope from my wife, the mother of our 2 children and the woman who I love. It doesn't get much worse for me. This is probably the rant of an extremely hurt and emotional man, but I will NEVER and would NEVER be able to get to a point where I could stand by and do something like this for myself while watching everyone around me whither away. I don't have that in me and maybe that's the problem but I'm afraid it's one I may take to my grave.
at some point I have to make it about me for my sake. If I am going to "change" and "work on our marriage alone" as the DB book says to do, then I feel that it's not consistent with that to simply ignore something that makes me so unhappy.
Look, of course it makes you unhappy, it's one of the worst things that can happen to someone. I'm suggesting how to lessen it's impact on you. You can't change the facts, they will be hurtful. But you have a choice in continuing to let them hurt you, or trying to climb out of it.
The DB book is written mostly for soured relationships that may still be mostly salvageable, akin to finding a tumor and treating it. By the time we have affairs going on, we're beyond the first stage of treatment. MWD's prescription for that is to go dark and GAL. Well of course there should be the elimination of truly hurtful behaviors and becoming a positive person blah, blah, but "repair"? That takes two willing participants. With an A going on, the prescription now becomes attracting the spouse to reconsider first and become a willing participant, before repairs can be made to any such relationship.
The problem is that without knowing IF there is still an affair to react to (or not) it is left without closure and that takes away a set of decisions I feel I need to make (stay, go, ask her to go, accept and prepare for the worst, accept and prepare for the best, none of the above).
Hey, you may never get closure. That's something you have let go of, and give yourself closure by accepting that you may never have closure. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best but don't expect it.
Again, I don't know how you are with someone for a decade, all the while having them as a source of security, love, comfort, affection, conversation, and yes damnit, some self esteem, and over the course of a couple days/weeks, separate your feelings surrounding those parts of your life from her.
Well that makes it hard, of course. This isn't easy to go through unless you don't give a flying f*ck in the first place, but if you were like that, you wouldn't be here. Your sitch is young, and you're going through a grieving process, you're still very much emotionally attached to her, but that's normal. She had a head start in getting detached, plus she has someone else to fill any sense of being alone or deprived of someone. You got caught offguard and traumatized.
She may not want to see a therapist, but perhaps it would be a good thing for you to do right about now.
Great, live for yourself. I get it, and I have done it in my life but when I got married, I agreed to live with this person in sickness and health, for better or for worse till death do us part.
I respect that, but I must respectfully say, IMO, this doesn't deal with reality. The reality is those vows have been broken, you're not obligated to keep them once they're broken. That's your choice. But let me add this, making the keeping of vows at this point a premise for wishing to "save" the relationship is as much the flip side of the WASs breaking the vows to save herself. You're both setting up your opposite camps, in effect, both of you doing the same thing.
In her mind, you broke fidelity first, believe it or not, when you didn't honor your vows of cherishing her.
You want her back in the marriage, she sees that marriage as being bad for her. You advocating keeping to vows, if you approach her with that, would be akin to her as a jailor insisting that she stay in the prison she wishes to flee from.
Instead, consider why you want her back. That's not about vows. She was your, how did you put it? "source of security, love, comfort, affection, conversation, and yes damnit, some self esteem". So, to me, that suggests that she met certain needs of yours (some of which you should be giving yourself and not seeking from others). Now you sense deeply the loss of all that, and having been wired for a decade to get this from that certain person, you want it back. Can't blame you for feeling that way, she's been imprinted on you. But right now, she isn't that person for you nor can she meet your needs like that. The relationship you took vows on has changed tremendously and no longer exists as it was.
Now forgive me for sounding too old fashioned, but a mid-life crisis could be considered sickness. It can't get much worse than an affair. I want to live up to my vows, not just for the kids, because I believe in them, the devastation it will cause if we divorce, but for my love of her and my belief that she DOES have love for me that can resurface.
I hear you. So... what's your plan then?
Sadly, and against most advice I find here, I am not entitled to, nor should I get that hope from my wife, the mother of our 2 children and the woman who I love.
Because what we're trying to tell you is that you're in a fog of "what was". If you're looking for advice that feeds into that, me, personally, I can't mislead you like that. Instead I'd tell you: Why should you expect hope from her? That's not where she's at? You don't expect sharks to act like dolphins, right? Well, you're swimming with a WAS/shark right now, don't expect her to act not act like a WAS.
This is probably the rant of an extremely hurt and emotional man, but I will NEVER and would NEVER be able to get to a point where I could stand by and do something like this for myself while watching everyone around me whither away. I don't have that in me and maybe that's the problem but I'm afraid it's one I may take to my grave.
I agree, it's that right now you're terribly hurt and emotional and its coloring your perceptions and all. Been there myself, I feel for you. It will get better in time, but you have to work that time to your benefit for yourself.
Thanks NY. Some of what you say stings, but I really appreciate your honesty. It's just that she keeps behaving LIKE A DOLPHIN and still looks like the dolphin I married (just in terms of trying to live the rest of our lives sans the affection/intimacy) but I get that at the very least that she's a shark in a dolphin suit. I am trying, I swear I am. It's just so damn hard and I have never had to face a situation with so little light at the end of the tunnel. Lucky me.
I have to tell you tottally, I'm in a similar situation as yours and I feel your concern as well. Those are my thoughts as well. How the heck can I let this go on with OM while working on myself. In the long run it seems to me that her relationship with him will go stronger while ours gets weaker. But I have to admit, the way I'm seeing it now is that she has these feelings for OM, no matter what I do or say and one way or the other they have to be resolved. I can't make any decisions for her and I can't change what "is". The only option I have is to focus on myself and my relationship with my girls and be here for my wife in any capacity that I can.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Quote: But I have to admit, the way I'm seeing it now is that she has these feelings for OM, no matter what I do or say and one way or the other they have to be resolved. I can't make any decisions for her and I can't change what "is".
I feel the same way about my H's affair with o.w. He actually tried (maybe too strong a word) to end things with her, and considered coming home twice. Both times, he became so incredibly depressed, and gave into the addiction (because that's what it is) and went back to her. He said, "I would rather take the chance than wonder about it." I realized there is nothing I can do. A part of me hates that I didn't realize this affair was going on until it had already become not only a PA but an EA too. I wonder if I'd discovered it earlier, maybe it wouldn't have escalated into this disaster that has become my life.
You sound like you do realize your wife needs to have the freedom to go through this, and the best thing to do is to give her the space to figure it out. They may not come back, and yes, it's hard to see how they might reconsider when all that seems to be happening is the affair R. is getting stronger while the marriage grows weaker. I'm in the exact same boat.
Good luck; take care.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
We all seem to be in the same boat! How do we get our spouses to read these postings! It may help them! Just a thought however unrealistic? My question is how loving do we still appear to our spouses or do we start to distant ourselves more and more each day? Will that not make the situatuon worse?
Tim
my story http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1049617&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
Quote: We all seem to be in the same boat! How do we get our spouses to read these postings! It may help them! Just a thought however unrealistic? My question is how loving do we still appear to our spouses or do we start to distant ourselves more and more each day? Will that not make the situatuon worse?
Something the wise NYS told me I believe in his first post to me...was that "But this does not mean anything to him at this time, it only means something to you. You have to approach things from the WAS's point of view. They don't want the relationship." Probably the some of the wisest advice I received on this board. It is so true. You can't tell them anything at this point if they are not open to it.
Visit www.coping.org. There are several interesting articles on detaching with love. You detach yourself from the situation, not the love that you feel for them. You spend your time and energy on you and GAL. The more and more time you spend focused on you, takes the focus off them and what they are doing. You start feeling stronger, healthier and more at peace with yourself...and perhaps your WAS will see the changes and curiousity will get the best of them. Many on here, intially do all the 180s, GAL with the sole purpose of winning back their spouse. But the main goal is to take your life back from you. Think of it as a mini-vacation from the rollercoaster ride that you have been riding. Reflect back to the person you were once, the person your WAS found attractive. Find new hobbies, meet new people..not necessarily dating (I don't think it's fair to bring any additional parties that may be hurt or used, into the R until the R is legally over, but that's just my view) just get out and resdiscover the world out there.
You have time, time and patience will be your new best friends....people panick at this stage. We live in such as I always say a FedEx world, we want, no we demand, instant gratification...but think about how long it took you to get to this place, your R will not be recovered by 6am, I can assure you. Time can and often does heal the wounds. But it takes work, courage and a great deal of love and compassion.
