Learning to Trust Myself V

[heatherg]

Speaking of the merry-go-round, when you feel like the ride is starting to spin, find a way to get off the ride w/o seeming like you are quitting or avoiding the issue. Take a time out to cool off and then come back to it after you have had time to think about it and calm down. Agree on a time to resume the discussion so that he knows you are not avoiding the discussion.

I think part of the reason I have hesitated to do this is because it is so hard to talk to H. Offhand I know that doesn't make sense so let me explain. Now that we have kids, time is rare. Keep in mind that the only time alone I have with H is at 10:15 at night. Then I hate to dive RIGHT into a conversation, so I'll wait a bit. Once we actually get involved in a conversation it is so hard to pull away, even if the conversation goes awry. I keep thinking to myself that it will be easier to steer the conversation in the proper direction than it will be to actually wait until our next opportunity to speak. There's a measure of desperation in there because we get so little alone time. As far as getting H to agree to a later time to discuss things, forget it. He won't, I've tried. Particularly by the time things have gone 'bad' he's not going to agree to anything.

That's my reason for the way things have happened in the past; I see that going forward the destructive conversations are in fact worse than not speaking at all. So, I'll try to get off the merry go round.

Your H seems very bitter. I can't say I would be totally different

Can you tell me more about how you feel, about the emotions that lie underneath the bitterness for a man? It's been mentioned on my thread several times that if the cheating partner were immediately remorseful, no chance of a R existed (like in perhaps a one night stand), how do you think that would have change how you treated your wife?

I think he still loves you. If not, he'd just leave.

Most people just leave when they no longer love someone. But some people really do stay for their kids.

You said you defend yourself all the time. Try not doing that.

Ok. The C told me the same thing. She said that just because he says something doesn't make it true. Therefore, I don't have to respond. That outlook makes sense to me and will help me I think. It's funny how people say the same thing, but when you hear something stated a certain way, it speaks directly to you. Sometimes the self help books I read are like poetry....some stuff just speaks directly to your heart and/or puts into words something you've felt but have been unable to verbalize.

It occurred to me today that I'm not a good person to advise anyone. My M is over.

Joe, just because your M didn't work out doesn't mean you are not fit to advise anyone. You know there is more to a M than one person...you could have been the most perfect H in the world, but for whatever reason you weren't perceived that way by WAW. Her perceptions and reality or what the majority of peoples' perceptions would have been may be totally different. Your WAW had a lot of her own issues that it seems she chose not to face...I know you know that. So, I for one, want your advice on my thread

However, when you had that affair, you were looking for it.

I'm not defending here, I promise. But, no, I wasn't. I could feel something that I thought was harmless....I know now that it was not harmless. But I wasn't looking~I could have stopped things long before I did, so in that respect, I can see where you'd say I was looking. Sometimes, these things do just happen. The kisses did not just happen. But to get to the point where the kisses could happen....well whatever it took to get to that point, DID just happen. If I was looking for anything outside of my marriage, I assure you that I would have picked someone different.

So, with that being said, perhaps it makes it all the more scary for H when I venture into new places with new people where H will not be present. I want to tell him that I understand his feelings, but I can't do that unless he actually expresses them, knim? And instead of expressing his feelings, he jumps ahead to trying to force his way on things.

You can offer reassurances, give him the location and itinerary where the dinner takes place, don't deviate from that, and remain fully available by cell phone should he wish to call and check in.

I will definitely do this. I won't even have a glass of wine if he prefers I don't. I mentioned this dilemma to the C and she actually said it was ridiculous and that I should go.

Those are controlling behaviors.

I mentioned to the C that H acts this way about my reading and BB, etc. but that I actually think he feels threatened. She said that very well could be the case because maybe he thinks I'm learning things that he's not and that threatens him. So his defense is to act like he thinks it's all stupid.

I can understand why you'd think that", you could say. "I'm not perfect, and I make a lot of mistakes thinking I may be right. So, what I'm trying to do is learn from the experiences of others, rather than go at this totally alone. Keep in mind that the forum is mostly comprised of the people that didn't have the affairs, people that look to work on saving their relationships, not the other way around, not people who just want justification from others to 'stay the same'. That forum is all about making changes in behavior and seeking beneficial solutions and making relationships work. That's why I want us to go to MC. I'm told it could help us. That's the kind of advice I'm looking for."

Would it have the same effect if I left off the very first sentence? That is the kind of stuff I cannot bear to say to him, because it's a flat out lie. I don't understand why he would say that at all. So, is it still validation if I leave that part off or do I really need to swallow my pride here?

Small update:

Yesteray since H had to cancel our MC appt and I have to pay if we don't cancel within 24 hours, I decided to keep the appt and go. On my way, H called but I didn't hear the phone ring. Then he called again and I picked up and he asked where I was. I told him I kept the appt and was on my way. He said he called earlier b/c it turned out he was in the area and probably could have made the appt, but since I didn't answer the phone he went to pick the kids up. He proceeded to tell me they were going to WalMart and I said "Ok, I should probably hang up b/c I'm very irritable, traffic is terrible and I'm going to be very late". He said ok. Well, when I got home, H was pretty ticked off that I went to the C session alone. I was surprised he was upset b/c he didn't act upset when I told him on the phone, he was talking normally to me. If he was upset, typically he would get snippy right away and hang up or else ask me about it right then. When I got home, he got very defensive and said "I thought this was supposed to be neutral territory?" He kept on about why I would do that and how I just don't consider anyone else's feelings and I think I can just do whatever I want with no consequences. He said he doesn't know if he feels comfortable going back there now. I asked if he would like to have another session with the C without me to 'even it out'. He said no. I told him I didn't want to argue about it because I couldn't change the fact that I went, but that I wouldn't go without him again, I just thought since we had to pay anyway, someone might as well go.

Maybe one of these days, I'll do something right?