Hi Heather, I really don't understand this tug of war between you and your H over the kids. I think that may be an area that you might want to explore in your counseling. It very much seems like a power struggle and your S5 is old enough to figure out what is going on here. I almost get the feeling that H is doing some of this stuff just to defy you. I'm wondering if you might make some headway by stating your case and then dropping it. Something like:
Husband: I'm taking S5 to the toy store to exchange his gift.
Heather: Oh, it is D3's bedtime and the kids still need to be fed.
Husband: Well, I still want to go
Heather: Well, we've driven separately. I'll see you at home.
Undoubtedly, the first couple times he's going to go off and do his thing. I think if you would stop reacting to his assinine choices then he would stop choosing them. Part of the reason he's doing it is to get your goat and it's working. And S5 is watching all this happen, too.
Unfortunately, S5 will pay the price for awhile with being overtired and irritable but it may be worth it in the long run. The two of you bickering is not doing him any good. I don't know if any of this makes sense to you. I hope you are not offended. I see it that H is baiting you and you take it everytime. I think he feels like you call the shots all the time, especially with the kids. Remember that fiasco at the mall when you wanted to buy D's tights? That whole scene was a power struggle.
Don't know if any of this helps. Just giving my 2 cents worth. You're trying to rebuild your M. Don't keep going down cheeseless tunnels.
Hugs,
Spitfire
Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest. Mark Twain
1. How about a 180? When he says, "I want to take D3 to sthe store now", or something as innapropriate that you'd normally argue against, you say instead, "OK". Not because you want to change your view nor accommodate him, but because maybe, just maybe, if you don't give him something to stonewall against, he'll change his mind on his own. Strange things like that can happen.
2. When the heck are they going to fire him? Maybe they already have.
I guess if I want my M to work, I don't have any choice but to try something different. Next time I'll try responding differently. I see that I could have said, "Well, it's D3's bedtime so we're going to head home." I think the problem was that the stage for this disagreement had already been set because for whatever reason H was not being nice at all during S5's karate class. I've actually never seen him like that in front of other people. It was a first and I still can't quite figure out what's going on. But it seems to me that there is something under the surface that was brewing last night besides him wanting to take S5 to the toystore. All the more reason for me to have just let him go.
With H, it's like S5 is his best friend. H stays up until 1am most nights.......he'd keep S5 up with him every minute if he could. There is a very different kind of relationship between my H and my son....I think the C will soon see that. I can see from an outsider's perspective where they might think H is making these choices just to get at me....he isn't. This is him...he goes to the toystore on his lunch hour for pete's sake. He buys toys for himself....most are in the attic. He says he'll sell them some day. Whether he sells them or not, my H has different interests than most men and it puts him at S5's level a lot of the time. They are like two peas in a pod and S5 won't hardly listen to me unless H reinforces what I've said. He tells me all the time he loves Daddy more than me, although he is old enough now to understand that is hurtful and he will then say, 'just kidding'. I feel like I could have a better R with my son if H and I were apart.....but I feel like I could have the BEST relationship with my son if H and I could work this out. I won't deny that it hurts my feelings to hear S5 say those things, but I really don't feel like H's relationship with S5 is influencing me to behave differently than I would otherwise.
Part of what upsets me so much with the toy store thing is that if it were the other way around.....H would flip a lid. If H told me he didn't want to do something regarding the kids (S5 more than D3 b/c I have more latitude to make decisions where she's concerned) and I went and did it anyway.....well first of all, I'd have to be alone with S5 for something like that to happen, for me to have the luxury of making a choice like that and H makes sure that S5 is always with him, which is fine with S5 because remember, he loves Daddy the best.
D3 does have a preference toward me, but it's a small one. Daddy still has a very big part of her heart and to me, that's more normal. I can understand that S5 would have a preference toward his Dad, but to this extreme I cannot help but feel that H works everyday to keep this preference rock solid and air tight. H and I take turns rocking D3 every single night. I cannot remember the last time I got to sit in the chair in S5's room with him on my lap while we read the bedtime story. H ALWAYS sits in the chair and I sit on the bed next to them.
As usual, these arguments that H and I have are symptoms of a much deeper issue. But I see that we'll never solve the issue by arguing over the symptoms. So thanks.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Ok, here's an example of a conversation where my big mouth gets me in trouble.
I call H this morning to tell him something about the kids' ice skates for the class I called on yesterday. I asked him if he was going to tell me why he was acting so ornery toward me yesterday. He said "I didn't think I was, I was just stressed out about not having the right directions, etc." So we sort of smoothed over yesterday's disagreement, and based on my above posts, I was going to let it go. We have a nice chat about S5's karate.
Then I ask him if 12:00 is a good time for the C appt, I need to call today and set it up. He says yes it's fine, I'm not going to be able to go every week, it's just something I don't really have time for in my life right now and I don't see where it's going to do much good anyway....it feels like it might do more harm than good." We discuss that some and I say we'll just have to take it as it comes. He talks about travelling and how he won't be able to go if he's travelling. I told him that if he really anticipates travelling that much, I don't understand why he doesn't look for other work. He said "Actually, I was. I even had a job lined up..." Meaning the job with my company. I said "Oh, come on, my company isn't the only company you can get a job with." He says "Sure, I can get a job with another contractor, but I'd still be travelling." I mentioned certifications he could get online, whatever. I said he hasn't even looked into his options. He insists that he doesn't have any options and I push and say that he does he just doesn't like them. He insists that he needs to go back to school full time and work a few hours to pay for his truck payment and I handle everything else like I got to do back in the day before we had kids. But he says he can't because I have to have everything my way. I said "H, I'm not saying thatI won't support you in that effort, just not right now." He said "Right, because you can't have everything your way." I said "No, because we're just not there right now, and it's not my decision that we're not there right now." He said "Yep, exactly. Heather can't have everything she wants the way that she wants it." I said "H, we're either married or we're not. If we are, you have my everything including my support. If we're not, then fu@k you". Oops, how did that come out of my mouth? He said "There, you just said it. It's my way or the highway. I'm not talking about this, I have people all around me." I said Ok and he hung up.
I said how I feel, but those words were probably better off left unsaid, huh?!
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
He says yes it's fine, I'm not going to be able to go every week, it's just something I don't really have time for in my life right now and I don't see where it's going to do much good anyway....it feels like it might do more harm than good."
That's probably going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy, Heather. Counseling typically does not work with people who believe it won't work.
I said how I feel, but those words were probably better off left unsaid, huh?!
Oh yep. It's not just a matter of expressing oneself, but how you go about it.
Power struggles... that's what you two are always into.
Quote: H, we're either married or we're not. If we are, you have my everything including my support. If we're not, then fu@k you
I really like that in a very non-DB kinda way. Nothing like laying it out there plain as day! Can I use that later in my sitch? Probably shouldn't, huh. Anyway, it's hard to say the right things all the time. One thing I am working on doing is using my controlling nature to anticipate the potential for bad conversations and keep myself out of them. One of the things they don't understand (and for the record, neither does my S5 who keeps telling me "you know, you don't get to have everything your way" when I punish him) is that right now NOTHING is your way. They see the R as something YOU want and thus everything that goes into fixing it, living it, nurturing it, is in turn all about YOU. They don't see the R as a sanctuary the way you do. Yes, you know it will be hard to make work, but all-in-all you/we LBS think that we are ultimately going to be happier within the R than without. We have worked on ourselves to the point where we understand the need to make our own happiness but to them, since we keep pursuing the R, we are still living in the past, clinging to something that is dead to them. We understand it can never be the same, but for them, they only understand it will probably never be the same as what they have with the OP, which is of course free from pressure, guilt, financial obligations, bad days and any other thing that comes with real relationships and real, lasting love. Hang in there, realize that you don't need to be perfect and that things can and do change, starting with you!
Hop.........splat..damn....well, then forgive my ignorance, pick out anything of interest I may have said and then accept my sincere apology for projecting my LBS-ness on you. No matter what, I wish you all the best.
No problem, thanks for the input. Two perspectives there on my outburst. On the one hand, I need to be careful how I express myself if I want my words to be taken seriously. On the other hand, I just put it out there. It's me, it's how I feel. I see that I can be confrontational when I feel strongly. Maybe that is why I have had such a hard time accepting the whole abuse thing in the past. Because I am not passive....in fact quite the opposite if I am fired up.
Oh well, right now I'm fired up because Lisa Rinna looked so freakin good tonight on Dancing with the Stars. Is her body phenomenal or what?!
Oh, ok and I've had two martinis, so forgive me for jumping around.
Love y'all.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Last night I suggested that S5 sit in my lap while reading the bedtime story. H was the first to object, S5 folowed suit. I said Ok, I'll tell you what, you guys read your story and I'll be back in to say goodnight. S5 says "yey".
This morning, I am getting S5 out of his bed and I heard H behind me saying "I'll get him". H is always still asleep at this point in the morning. I ignore H, so he leans in to hug S5 and of course S5 leans into him and H takes him. I have no idea why he is even awake at this point in the morning. All he does is make everything difficult in the mornings. He sits on the couch with the kids while I finish getting ready and when he is there, the kids won't let me do anything. I can't comb D3's hair, put their coats on, nothing. So I am always at H's mercy with how fast he is willing to move and he knows it.
I tell H that he was wrong to object last night and he asks me "Yeah, that was nice. Why would you even do that, why would you even go there?" We argue.
Did I push an issue that I shouldn't have? I feel like something has happened, since the day he had his C appt, he has acted differently. It may just be a coincidence, I don't know. But he has not treated me with any kind of respect or consideration since that day and the good vibes between up ended quite obviously when he took S5 to the toystore despite my objection. He deliberately picked that fight. I don't know if he's trying to get us to a place where he can excuse himself from counseling or what. We were cooperating and coparenting pretty well there for a while except for the bedtime with S5. Now everything is backsliding and I don't understand why.
I do understand that I have to change my reactions to his bait...I get so furious at the ridiculousness of it all and so very frustrated that he can't also see how ridiculous and unnecessary all of these power struggles are. From my perspective, can you really say that the power struggle is mine when all I'm asking for is a 9:30 bedtime for our 5 year old son? I can see maybe if we were arguing over an 8 vs 8:30 bedtime, but I have yet to meet a person who thinks 10pm is a reasonable bedtime for a 5 year old. So who is pulling the power struggle there? My son hasn't sat in my lap when H was home in gosh I don't know, it might be easier to say how many times he HAS sat with me while H was home. I could probably count on one hand. I could also count on one hand the number of times I have taken S5 somewhere without H if he was not travelling. He on the other hand implemented boys night out with S5 (without discussing it with me). Who is pulling the power struggles????
I admit that I don't react well and I have to change that. Or do I? At least in the short term I do. But changing my reactions.....is that going to solve these problems? I just don't know about that.
And ok, so changing my reactions in the short term. Should I have never asked for S5 to sit in my lap? Whould that be changing? Or should I have just acted like it didn't bother me and sat there through the story like I always do? Continue to act like it doesn't bother me that when we play I Spy, I ALWAYS go last, S5 laughs when I get the pages no one else wants, and tease me because I pick out the easy things for them to spy? This all sounds so trivial, but do you see that it sets the tone for me? That it all points to "We don't really want you here, but if you must, at least we can be entertained". Am I too sensitive?
I thought about letting them have their story and time and then I will sit in the chair with S5 for a few minutes. This perpetuates the ridiculous bedtime routine and prolongs his bedtime even further, albeit just a few minutes. But my point is that I have to concur with the very thing that we argue about just to get some affection/cuddle time with my son.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
