Learning to Trust Myself V

[Burgbud]

I hope that this counselor is the right one for us and that she can be a good guide.

Me too!

And I especially hope H is willing to look at his life where she suggests it and do the work required to make the changes he needs. The C can only lead a horse to water.

One way or the other, Heather, your life is gonna get better. Keep looking forward!

[heatherg]

Actually, I just double checked H's appt card and his appt is actually Wed not Tues.

Update:
We're back to discussing remodeling our house. It was his idea to reopen the topic. He has drawn out the plans and taken measurements and everything. So I feel optimistic about that.
We had a good weekend, Sat was D2's birthday party~she is now D3. We cooperated well and got along and made a lot of eye contact over the weekend. We'd look up at each other and smile whenever the kids did something cute. There was some affectionate smacks on the behind, stuff like that.

H is drinking O'Douls every night. Part of me feels like I shouldn't care, as he says he isn't hurting anyone or anything. O'Douls doesn't change his personality or affect him in any way that should concern me. Right? For some reason, wrong. I still find it highly invasive in our lives. I can't explain why any further than to say what I've said. It's invasive.
The bedtime for S5 is still a problem. Nothing has changed there. My MIL told H and I that her and S5 were reading a magazine where it talked about what you love most about your family so she asked him what he loved most about Daddy. He told her that he loved when it was time for bed he would argue with me and say 'just one more game' and he gets to stay up later. She asked him what he loved about his Mommy and he said he loves it when he's in time out, I always come down and hug him and tell him I love him. She asked what he loved about his sister and he looked at her, she was bouncing off the walls, and then looked at MIL and said "She's just plain ole crazy!!" Cute. But there it is, from the mouths of babes.

A week or so ago, H tried to sleep in my bed. This would have been the second time. If you recall, the first time he did this, we had sex. This time, I stuck to my guns and pretty much ignored his advances. He eventually got up and left, nicely touching my arm before he left. He later told me he had to leave because he couldn't stop thinking about 'it'. Who knows how long all of this will go on. It's been 18 months since I've been kissed or even allowed in my bed. It's so sad, but when everything else goes well, it seems like something I can live with. Of course I don't want to, but I suppose I can. I pray it doesn't come down to that.

That's pretty much where we're at.

[NYsurvivor]

My MIL told H and I that her and S5 were reading a magazine where it talked about what you love most about your family so she asked him what he loved most about Daddy. He told her that he loved when it was time for bed he would argue with me and say 'just one more game' and he gets to stay up later. She asked him what he loved about his Mommy and he said he loves it when he's in time out, I always come down and hug him and tell him I love him.

Eek. S's being trained to get his way, seeing that arguing is the way to do so, and also to do naughty stuff to the extent which he'll be timed out so that he can subsequently enjoy the reward of feeling loved. Lovely.

Not that it matters much, and it may even be predictable, but I'm curious... what was MIL's response to S's answers?

A week or so ago, H tried to sleep in my bed. This would have been the second time. If you recall, the first time he did this, we had sex. This time, I stuck to my guns and pretty much ignored his advances. He eventually got up and left

Good for you sticking to your guns. If he avoids intimacy, then does that mean he just wants a lay? I'm sorry, I'm a bit repulsed by his climbing into bed with you, that's just me.

[heatherg]

S5 rarely gets in deep trouble. I came home from work one day a couple weeks ago and H had made him go to his room. That's only the second time that's ever happened. S5 had gotten his name on the board for not listening at school so H sent him to his bed and took his blankets away. When I got home, I went down to his room so he could tell me in his own words why he was in trouble. He explained it to me and I told him that he was going to need to do a better job at listening. I hugged him and told him I loved him and that he needed to finish his time out. Toward the end of his time out, S5 was calling out to H-S5 had been silent up to this point except he was crying to himself. H ignored him. A second later, D3 called out to Daddy and Daddy says "Yeah baby?" I'm sure S5 heard Daddy respond to his sister but not to him. I quietly told H it was not nice to ignore S5, you don't ignore people you love. I called down to S5 "S5, we're not talking right now because you're in time out". That was the extent of my involvement. I am all for discipline, but I think kids are very fragile feeling that when you are angry with them that you don't love them anymore. I want my kids to understand that they are ALWAYS loved even when they are in trouble.
As for aruguing about bedtime, I've pretty much given up. I stick to the bedtime that H has set....if I didn't say anything, he'd go past that time as well. So, at 9:30 I speak up telling S5 it's bedtime and H doesn't argue. It's only if I try to implement an earlier bedtime that there is problems. It's definitely not good to argue about it in front of S5.

MIL didn't really express an opinion although the subject came up because SIL was there too and a funny story came up about something her son said about Uncle Matt (my H) still having toys and being a kid so to speak. Nephew was commenting that he didn't want to be a grown up b/c grown ups never have any fun...unless he could be like Uncle Matt. I agreed and said "Yes, H is very much like a kid, where even at bedtime it is H not S5 pleading for just one more game" I laughed it off and then MIL said "Yep, that's exactly what S5 told me....." and it went like that.

If he avoids intimacy, then does that mean he just wants a lay?

He denies that and I don't really see that as being the case either. There are degrees of intimacy and sex with H is by no means cold and unfeeling, one-sided or mechanical. But neither is it loving. Caring maybe but not loving.

I'm sorry, I'm a bit repulsed by his climbing into bed with you, that's just me.

Does it make you less repulsed to know that I told him it was ok? We had a R conversation that left things a little distant. I didn't want any negativity from our discussion to carry over so I told him to come sleep with me when he went to bed that night and I left my door open. He may have thought I was inviting sex, but I wasn't.

[heatherg]

Speaking of S5 though, there have been improvements in my R with H that I forgot to mention as H has been so much more supportive of me with S5. S5 for some reason feels that he doesn't have enough love for both H and I. He'll say things like 'I love Daddy the best' or whatever. H will show a sign of disapproval when S5 says those things. He used to keep silent. H says a lot of "Oh, did you show Mommy? Or "tell Mommy about this or that....".
I'm particularly happy about our progress in this area.

[heatherg]

Today's the day that H meets our counselor. He hasn't shown any negative reactions the couple times I've mentioned it. I had to mention it once to tell him when I made the appt for and once again last night to give him the mapquest directions I had printed for myself, his appt card and the check. Both times he reacted well. I'm apprehensive because I hope he takes it seriously. I'm not planning to ask him if he liked her or anything, I will leave it up to him to express his thoughts if he wants to. I really like her, but I've said nothing to him about her because I don't want him to have any preconceived notions about her and what she may or may not have said to me.

I called him this morning to ask him about our life insurance because I was filling out some paperwork and he didn't answer his phone which is unusual, so I left him a voicemail about the life insurance question. He called me back a little while later and when I asked where he was when I called, he went right into answering my question about the life insurance, ignoring my question about where he was. When I repeated my question about his whereabouts, he answered "None of your business" but not in our usual playful tone, like he would use if he were doing something as a surprise for me or something. I asked why he would say that and he oddly said "I can't discuss it right now". I find that odd because HE called ME, why would he call me back at a time when he couldn't talk? His answer about the life insurance was very weird too, saying that the kids and I no longer have life insurance apparently. I said "What do yo mean apparently, the company stopped providing the benefit and you didn't know anything about it?" He said yes. That isn't so hard to believe b/c the guy never knows what's going on with his benefits, he doesn't pay attention to that kind of stuff and just recently had to pay for his own glasses and contacts because his vision was changed to another provider and he didn't fill out the necessary paperwork so human resources didn't add him to the policy.
His answers were all just very odd. It will probably all make sense later. I told him laughingly that he was being very mysterious and to call me back later.

Hmm.

[NYsurvivor]

When I repeated my question about his whereabouts, he answered "None of your business" but not in our usual playful tone, like he would use if he were doing something as a surprise for me or something. I asked why he would say that and he oddly said "I can't discuss it right now". I find that odd because HE called ME, why would he call me back at a time when he couldn't talk?

He called you back when he could talk about the life insurance, he didn't know you were going to ask about his whereabouts, though. Perhaps someone was in his office, and maybe his whereabouts involved them, so he wasn't going to start talking about them while they're there, that's all.

Dunno about that dropping of you and the kids off the policy though... that is odd.

And to answer an earlier question... no, I'm not less repulsed. Like I said, that's just me. Heather, you still find excuses for his behaviors to justify him... there's a payoff in it for you of some kind... no, not a future payoff, that's not what I mean... there's an immediate payoff, there's a reason you do so now. It will all come out in the Counselor's wash, I suppose.

[heatherg]

Heather, you still find excuses for his behaviors to justify him... there's a payoff in it for you of some kind... no, not a future payoff, that's not what I mean... there's an immediate payoff, there's a reason you do so now.

Yeah, probably so. In terms of payoff, I guess you could say that I don't want to have to entertain thoughts of divorce until it's undeniably unfixable. Divorce is painful enough to go through, but to live in a suspended state leaning toward divorce for as long as H and I have been going through this would make me a wreck. If it comes down to divorce, fine. I'll deal with it then. Ya know?

Secondly, this is where the counselor, the third neutral party will help me significantly. Because every time someone sees my point of view, I will instantly shift to my H's point of view, or what I THINK his point of view is. It sounds like I'm defending him. Really I'm trying to play both husband and wife here. I know he's not ALL at fault. So as soon as someone agrees with me, I switch sides. I do it to try to be fair I think, but I can see where it makes me sound defensive of his behavior.

Have you listened to the Keeping Love Alive tapes? You know the one that talks about 'Sue' and 'Tom'? Sue gives her side and MWD says "Now, you might be thinking Tom is an insensitive lout and wondering why Sue is even with that guy.....but wait just a minute because you haven't heard Tom's side of the story..."
That's what I feel like a lot of times. I have needed, really needed, someone to hear both sides of our story.

[Jabez]

Secondly, this is where the counselor, the third neutral party will help me significantly. Because every time someone sees my point of view, I will instantly shift to my H's point of view, or what I THINK his point of view is.

And this is where the title of your thread comes into play? Learning to trust myself

Have you listened to the Keeping Love Alive tapes? You know the one that talks about 'Sue' and 'Tom'?

It's a chicken and egg story that just keeps going round and round while it swirls down the drain.

I'm sure that deep down each of us on this board have at some point taken a look at ourselves and tried to figure out what we contributed to the mess that we are in. And part of DB'ing is identifying those habits or character traits and changing them. By changing those habits and traits, we hope to put a stopper in the drain and save what's left and then find away to fill the sink again.

Peace,
Jabez

[heatherg]

And this is where the title of your thread comes into play? Learning to trust myself

Exactly.

It's a chicken and egg story that just keeps going round and round while it swirls down the drain.


Yep.

I'm pretty angry right now. We took S5 to karate and didn't get out of there until about 8pm. H was not very friendly to me while we were there and at one point I would say he was actually a jerk in front of one of the blackbelts that was speaking to me. A woman. Anyway, we get to the parking lot and H asks me "What are we doing?" I look at him and say "Going home....?" We had driven separately so S5 went with him and D3 went with me. On the way home, H calls me and says he wants to take S5 to the toy store to exchange a toy he got from my sister today that he already had. I said "H, it's D3's bedtime, we can do that tomorrow." He said accusingly "Is that fair to him?" I said "H, this isn't about being fair or unfair, we've been at karate and it's D3's bedtime, not to mention that the kids haven't eaten yet." We continue to argue about it and H says "I'll see you at home." I said "Are you planning to take him to the toy store?" He says "Yes". I got so angry I needed to hang up. A minute later I called him back and said "Are you really going to disregard what I've said and take S5 to the toystore anyway?" He said "You've disregarded what I think". I said "H, it is D3's bedtime, there is no disputing that, this has nothing to do with me disregarding you! We can go tomorrow or Friday or Saturday or Sunday. Tonight, it's late." He said I don't want to go out tomorrow, I just want to stay home tomorrow. At some point he accused me of getting mad because I wasn't getting my way. At some point I asked him why he was trying to set our R back by doing this and I told him something has come over him to act this way out of the blue. Finally he said again "I'll see you at home" and he hung up.

So, he took S5 to the toystore. Then they came home and as usual, the first thing H does is go to the fridge and get an O'Douls and goes outside to smoke. He must have ran out of O'Douls b/c he just went to the store. What an idiot. Oh, sorry.

Earlier today I asked him if he made our MC appt or if I needed to call back and he said I needed to call back. So, I guess that means he went. Maybe she said something to him he didn't like? Who knows.

Tonight when I got home from work I asked him what the heck was the deal with telling me where he was earlier? He said he didn't want to discuss it at work b/c he was actually at home sleeping when I called. He said he sat back down on the couch this morning after the kids and I left and he fell back asleep. I think he is late just about every day, I'm starting to wonder when the heck they're going to fire him. He leaves after I do in the morning, gets home before I do in the afternoon and takes long lunches. Whatever.

ARRGH. This guy either has more problems than the average bear or I am one difficult person to live with.