Learning to Trust Myself V

[heatherg]

Thanks Jabez, some of these are probably worth answering in my thread.

Do you love H?

Probably not the way one is supposed to love another, unconditionally. There is much about my H that I hate and I have trouble respecting him and his decisions.

Why do you want to stay in this R?

Because we have such a long history, we have children, we have so many memories. He and I could have everything a married couple wants. We don't have any problems that can't be solved....it's just solving them seems to be insurmountable sometimes especially when one of us perceives something to be a problem and the other disagrees. How do you ever see eye to eye with someone who just doesn't think like you do?

Can you find anything to be happy about?


I am the mother of two beautiful and healthy children, I have a great job, I like myself and the way I look, I love my karate class, my sister is my best friend, I don't have any horrors from childhood.

Can you find anything in your R/M to be happy about?

We are taking dance classes, we have had some really good conversations where H has actually spoken from the heart, H has agreed to counseling, H has been more supportive of my role with S5 (outside of the bedtime thing), there has been talk of the future (house, etc).

Can you find anything about H to be happy about?

My H is good looking, I'm attracted to him. He's chivalrous when we are getting along. He's not social, but the upside of that is that he's home all the time and spends his time with his family. He can be goofy with me, we can laugh together. When it comes to other people's situations, we almost always see eye to eye. He's thoughtful with gifts. He's a good lover.

Do you really want to save your M or are you ultimately concerned and fearful of the financial drain of a D and the need to alter your lifestyle?

I really want to save my M.

Do you need H rather than love him?

I don't need H. I am very financially independent and mostly run our household on my own anyway as far as division of household work.

Do you believe you should stay to protect S5 & D2?

Yes.

Does a part of you like this excitement?


This one worries me. Do I like it? No, not even a little bit. BUT....I do worry that an argument has become my way to emotionally connect with H when all seems to have failed. I don't know for sure, but it seems that I let things build up and build up and then I just blow. And it's not pretty. Last night in fact, was not pretty.

Last night was just like the old me. Just spewing everything I hate about H. I told him I believe I'd be better off without him and that I'd always believed that but for some crazy a@@ reason I love him. I later apologized for saying that....I do feel that way a lot, but to put it into words like that is nothing short of cruel. I can be very cruel. It was just like old times with him staring at the TV and me going off.

I have had a lot on my mind with this job thing. He told me last night that 'something's up with you, I don't know what it is, but it's been going on for a couple of days now'. Well that something is a combination of PMS and that I've been completely stressing over this job. This job could be great for him. For us too if things were normal. This is part of our dream. But, we're not living our dream. We're stuck in this crappy reality where H has hit pause. He cannot even recommit to this marriage to the extent that he wears his ring. But I am supposed to welcome him into the second largest aspect of my life (my workplace)?! He insists that we be nice to one another, that we start with that. Getting him a job at my company goes leaps and bounds past 'being nice' and I think if that's the snail's pace he is choosing, then it has got to go both ways. Sometimes it feels like he's just using me to get what he wants. Like I can be played for a fool at his whim. I know these are my feelings and are probably not indicative of what he's actually doing, but the point is there's nothing positive going on to make me feel otherwise.
I fear that he really is trying and I'm ruining it by demanding too much at once. I'm really blowing this thing. I need to trust myself. If I don't want to get him a job here, then I won't forward his resume. This is my decision. I don't have to take it out on him and be super angry at everything. See, my problem is that I WANT to get him a job here. I WANT to go forward with our dreams. And I'm mad and fuming and being totally out of line with him because I can't do that.

[grasshopper]

I did the same thing in my thread. Funny, I like your answers better than mine. Guess my mind was not working as clearly as I'd have liked.
I am going to try to leave the boards alone for awhile...too much talking on my part this morning...must think about something else.

TMU

[koshka]

Heather,

You are in a lot of pain right now, and it shows.

Sometimes when we're overwhelmed, we start thinking that this is what will always be, or that this is "the only chance" to do something. You and H are not preparing to say good bye as one leaves to colonize another solar system or something. There will be more chances to make more dreams come true, if you get through the crisis right now.

Don't pressure yourself over getting him a job. It's a big town, and if through the MC the two of you can agree that he needs to be at home more and not travelling so much, he can find work.

I disagree completely with his stance on bedtime, but I'm a very different parent than he is. My S6 is tucked in, lights out, by 8:00 most school nights when he's here at home. I don't know what happens when he's with his Mom.

As you head into MC, try to remember some of those positives that you posted. It will have to be one helluva counselor, and it will take a lot of effort on your part and on H's part, but you're not beaten yet. When you have to stop trying, if that time comes, you will know.

Prayers and hugs,

K

[Jabez]

Heather,

After re-reading my list of questions, I hope that you don't get the impression that I think you are miserable B%$#*! My intent was to ask you questions to get you find some of the positives in your life, R/M.

I agree with Kashka's observation. I think you are in a lot of pain right now and it is showing. I also agree that you shouldn't pressure yourself or H w/a timeline or the job situation.

I'll include you and H in my prayers tonight.

[heatherg]

(TMU) Funny, I like your answers better than mine. Guess my mind was not working as clearly as I'd have liked.

I read your answers and thought they were very clear.

(Koshka) Sometimes when we're overwhelmed, we start thinking that this is what will always be

That is so true. I really have a tendency to think this way, so it's especially important for me to slow down and try to see the big picture.

(Jabez) After re-reading my list of questions, I hope that you don't get the impression that I think you are miserable B%$#*!

No, of course not, I appreciated the chance to do some introspection and to post clearly about some of those things.

I haven't done anything about the job. I called H the day after I was so mean and apologized to him for the way I acted and I brought lunch home for everybody (he had the day off for MLK day so he was home with the kids). We talked later that night and I told him I just couldn't do it, it was a very hard decision for me and I've stressed about it but when it comes down to it I realized that getting him a job at my company goes beyond nice and exceeds the pace he has set for this reconiliation by a long shot. In that conversation he asked what I wanted from him and I told him I wanted him to recommit to this marriage at which point he told me he couldn't believe I would even ask him to recommit when I cannot even be nice to him. He has also mentioned buying property and building again. I told him I'm not ready to do that until I'm sure I'm moving with my husband. He says it's time to create new and happy memories for the kids, but I said the memories won't be all they could be unless we fix this first. He said, well I don't know what to tell you, the kids aren't on our timeline, S5 is starting school soon. I said he'll have to change schools at this point no matter what because even if we did build and move, no house would be ready by this September.

The positives are that he wants to move and build a house. That's such a big part of what I want for my family right now and it's really hard to turn down. I think it's positive that he wants that because the more synonomous our goals can be, maybe the more incentive we have to fully reconcile.

I'm worried that I'm impeding the process by not agreeing. That maybe we would be so happy in our new endeavor that the R would heal. That's a pipedream isn't it? Something NY said on his thread about thinking with his head and not his heart is ringing true here!

On a very deep level, I think I'm making the right decision. On the surface though, just by getting H a job at my company doesn't mean we have to move and build. It just means that we're setting ourselves up to be ABLE to do that when we fully reconcile. So, maybe the job thing isn't such a bad thing.

All of my reasons for not wanting him to come and work here are not admirable. In addition to not wanting to work with my ex if we should separate, I am hesitant to help him with the amount of money he makes and putting an end to his travelling days because I think that in the case of separation that would only make his life better. I'm not in a place where I want to make his life better when he cannot grant me the comfort of sleeping in my own bed. There is revenge there for sure. There is also leverage. He wants something from me. It seems to help balance the power in our R some.

So, now that you know all my reasons, what do you think?

[heatherg]

I had my first session with our MC yesterday afternoon. I really, really liked her. She had some interesting suggestions about H's behavior that no one else has suggested. My other counselors have not made any attempt to determine why H acts the way he does, perhaps this C is only doing so b/c she knows she will be meeting him as well, I don't know.
She suggested that H is an intimacy avoider. That is a possibility I haven't considered yet. By the time the session was over, she said she still had a million questions. I am so curious to see how these sessions turn out. It will be a very important piece of learning to listen and trust my inner voice because right now I have this gnawing feeling that the people who support me only support me because they haven't heard H's side and that I've somehow colored things in my favor with people even though I feel like I've tried to be fair and objective. This will be the first time that someone who has heard my side of the story will also hear my H's. If counseling does nothing else for us, just this alone will do a great deal for me personally. I need someone else to confirm the things I've seen and felt. I don't know why my own feelings on tehse issues aren't enough, they just aren't.

I have not had a change of heart on the employment issue. For me, it's still a no go. I don't think I've ever had to practice this much self restraint around someone I am supposed to feel safe with. It's such a shame.

I need to think about some goals for 2006, I haven't done that yet.

[Dmsw4]

I remember going into counseling feeling like....oh oh, she's going to find out that I'm really the nutcase and H has been right to leave me all along. Well, I really found out that I'm OK, I can trust my instincts and it felt really good to get it all out.

Love you H

[Jabez]

Hi Heather,

I remember back in Sep of '04 a month before WAW moved out, we went to one MC session together, one IC and then one MC together all with the same councilor. After that I had several IC sessions. At my sessions my goal was to try to understand WAW and prevent the separation and/or D. The C frustrated me to no end b/c she would not talk about WAW b/c WAW was a patient of her's. At my last session she recommended that I see some one for my anger. I quit seeing that C after WAW moved out. I'm pretty sure that WAW quit before I did.

My point is that I'm surprised that C told you that H was an "Intimacy Avoider".

I feel like WAW also suffered from this. I do have my reasons for thinking this. I'm going to do some research on this.

Good luck with your goals.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

[koshka]

Heather,

It will be a very important piece of learning to listen and trust my inner voice because right now I have this gnawing feeling that the people who support me only support me because they haven't heard H's side and that I've somehow colored things in my favor with people even though I feel like I've tried to be fair and objective. This will be the first time that someone who has heard my side of the story will also hear my H's.

That's one of the best things about getting with a good C, a "reality check" on what you can expect in a good R/M. I know that DR says to keep you expectations in check, but that's really an admonition to avoid impatience and haste in a sitch that you're trying to save. It's not a blanket condemnation of reasonable expectations in your M.

Good luck with this. I have a feeling it could be a turning point for you and H.

When does he go?

Thanks,

Joe

[heatherg]

(Mel) Well, I really found out that I'm OK, I can trust my instincts

We knew it all along

(Jabez) The C frustrated me to no end b/c she would not talk about WAW b/c WAW was a patient of her's.....My point is that I'm surprised that C told you that H was an "Intimacy Avoider".

H is not a patient of hers, maybe that is the difference. I'm not sure. She really didn't label him per se, she just said that a lot of H's behaviors that I described are things people do to avoid intimacy. She also thought his extreme ways are akin to obssessive compulsive disorder. That his rigid schedules and the way he views the world bring him comfort.

(Joe) I know that DR says to keep you expectations in check, but that's really an admonition to avoid impatience and haste in a sitch that you're trying to save. It's not a blanket condemnation of reasonable expectations in your M.

Making the distinction between what is reasonable and what isn't is difficult for me. I've been with H since I was 17, so this is really the only relationship I've ever had. We were just kids when we got together and we've had to grow and mature together and I'm sure we've done that at different rates and perhaps not at all in some areas. In some areas, maybe we're still 17. It's especially tough when you grow up together, you know?

He goes to his first session on Tuesday. I'm going to tell him to go ahead and schedule our joint session while he's there for whatever day is convenient for him and just let me know.

I certainly hope it's a turning point. I hope that this counselor is the right one for us and that she can be a good guide.