About the conversation, my suggestion would be to just not go there again. You are going down a cheeseless tunnel and you have an expectation that he might not be able to give you. Then you will be even more upset and angry. I think it is best not to go there. This topic is tough and should probably be one to tackle in counseling. Just try to let it go now and focus on other things. He was making baby steps - you can't expect it all to change at once (although that would be nice!). Hope that helps you - please take care!
WCB
God grant me the serenity,
to accept the things I cannot change,
To change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.
- Reinhold Niebuhr
He said "If anything it goes the other way....you know what? Forget it. You're not looking at anything when we get home. When you were being reasonable I was willing to let you look, but not when you're acting like this."
Apparently, what he extends to you is CONDITIONAL love. That's his controlling nature, Heather. "If you act a certain way, then I'll love you."
I always thought that a man's wife was supposed to be the most beautiful woman in the world to him. He said "One of, but not the only."
Doi! The guy's got a lot to learn about what to say to a woman. He really takes you for granted, huh?
I know everyone fantasizes, don't get me wrong. But you know what? My H is my favorite main character in mine.
I can relate to that, my ex was my fav fantasy too. But different strokes for different folks (no pun intended). Maybe it's best to leave sexual fantasies alone, leave them as the fantasies they are. They're not reality.
Stupidly, I plan to continue the discussion tonight.
If you know it's a dumb idea, then don't do it.
I want to tell him that I don't want to be the ONLY beautiful girl in the world....that I just want to be HIS preference, the most beautiful girl to HIM. If he cannot say that I am, I don't know what the hell I'm gonna do.
Heather, it's a fantasy. Leave it be. But yes, to you verbally, he should've said what you want to hear, if he cared about your feelings. I have this theory you might agree with... if someone loves you, they'd better damn walk the walk and talk the talk.
Thanks! On the down side, I didn't get your replies before I initiated my conversation. On the upside, guess who slept with her H last night? Me!!! Not in our bed, but in "mine". I think we may have come to an understanding. For the longest time, the things he said to hurt me didn't cease to amaze me-and he still has his moments, like yesterday. However, these last few weeks, he is amazing me by trying to take my feelings into consideration. I am completely wowed.
He is afraid to welcome me into my bed before things are steadily amicable and peaceful and loving because he is afraid that things will go back to where they were and he will be the one who feels uncomfortable in his own bed. I never told him he couldn't sleep in his own bed, but it seems I wasn't always very welcoming either. He said "Let's just be nice to each other for a while Heather and see where that takes us". I said "Theoretically, that's great. Realistically, things go on around here that are not very nice. Such as me sleeping in a room that is not my own and me being the only one wearing a wedding ring, etc. So, who decides what's being nice? I'm not trying to split hairs, but you see the dilemma. You want me to be nice to you while you continue with some behaviors that I find not very nice at all."
Something we said to each other must have been heard. Needless to say, I'm feeling pretty great today!
Thank you for your words of caution. Overall, I think you were right. I took a chance and am thankful it came out with a good ending. I guess I'm just to the point where I'm willing to try, but I'm accepting my limitations. Before, I used to doubt myself and tell myself I didn't have the right to feel this way or that. Well, I think I'm done with all that. I think I've learned to trust myself folks. I know what I need to make this R work....I know the level of effort that I need to see from H. I'm learning to spot abuse when I see it and I'm learning how to handle myself better in those situations. I know disrespect when I see it. I also recognize it when the disrespect comes from me. I know when to apologize and when to stick to my guns. When I finally trusted myself enough to set boundaries and tell him firmly what I need from him, it seems that he really is trying to give it. What a great way to start the new year!!!
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Very happy for you Heather...perhaps leading by example would be good here. I don't think it should necessarily be a decision who is to be the nicer one here or who starts it off. It should be the coming together of two people who love each other and want their marriage to work and are willing to do whatever it takes. That means throwing away the games, the bs and getting down to the nit and gritty of the situation and open those lines of communication. I think this is the hard part of reconciling and working things through, thus why some people avoid it and move forward. You both have something that is holding it together find it and work on making it stronger.
You have learned a great deal through all this about yourself and about him...time to put it all to work and perhaps lead him gently by the hand. You need your boundaries...how do you feel about them now?
I wish you well...one baby step at a time Heather!!!
A belated Happy birthday, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Heather, it sounds like there are some huge positives here. I know how much it must hurt that H isn't wearing his ring, or welcoming you in your bed.
I think, though, just focus on the positives right now, because they are certainly there. Sometimes when we see positive changes, we want to up the anty. These little things will be dealt with in therapy. The main thing for you right now is to first end the abusive cycle of the R and to get into therapy. And H seems to be acknowledging both.
Make sure you guys get into therapy soon, keep this positive momentum going. Ya know, you can call the Divorce Busting line and they will recommend a therapist in your area. I think that is prob. your best bet to finding a good soln. oriented therapist.
Sorry I didn't get to you sooner. I didn't update my "favorites" list after thread IV locked up and I missed a lot!
Congratulations on the positives! I'd second the advice already given and say to take it slow and easy so that there is no retreating back over the steps forward.
I keep thinking that I'm going to post 'when things settle down a bit'....of course that never seems to happen. I'm beginning to realize that this is going to be the pace for the new year! Yikes.
(StrongNSassy)I think this is the hard part of reconciling and working things through, thus why some people avoid it and move forward.
Yes, avoiding seems to be a popular thing. On one hand, my H is moving at a snail's pace that seems ridiculous to me. On the other hand, other people forgive and reconcile so quickly it makes me wonder if there won't be problems down the road after the immediate joy of reconciling wears off. Admitting that one has been hurt makes them vulnerable....natural defenses seem to be to defend when you've been hurt (by putting up walls, etc), so intentionally making oneself vulnerable goes against instinct and is VERY hard. That's my observation of myself and my situation. I've spent lots of time being angry with H because it was easier than being hurt.
(StrongNSassy)You need your boundaries...how do you feel about them now?
I feel that this is my way of taking things slowly and being able to exert some control over the direction of my development and my life. My H is really in the drivers seat when it comes to reconciliation. But I've learned that by enforcing my boundaries based on what feels right and wrong to me, I can help steer the reconciliation process.
(Still_Hopeful)just focus on the positives right now, because they are certainly there. Sometimes when we see positive changes, we want to up the anty.
Yes, it's hard to be patient. It's hard not to let my ego get in the way. What kind of person is as grateful as me b/c my H chose to sleep in the same bed as me one night out of like 450 nights? A very pathetic one. I know I am hard on myself, but I am stronger than this and I hate it that I've put myself in a situation where I have to be at the mercy of someone else. My self respect hangs in the balance a lot of days. Other days, I'm ok. Patience is something that does not come easy to me!! But alas, I am working on it.
(Still_Hopeful)he main thing for you right now is to first end the abusive cycle of the R
I've found that I am hyper-sensitive to anything that might indicate that the abusive interactions are returning. The other day H was in a bad mood, treating the kids just fine, but treating me poorly. He tries to play it off as though I am not respectful of his mood. I told him he wasn't treating anyone else in the house poorly. He asked "You WANT me to treat the kids poorly?!" I said of course not, I don't want you to treat anyone poorly. My point was only that if you can discern who you will treat poorly and who you won't, you are making a decision. You can therefore make a decision to be fair to everyone and do what you need to do to make yourself feel better without taking your bad mood out on ANYbody. I made the comment "I'm NOT doing this." He accused me of being ready to jump to divorce over a bad mood. I recognize that I am hyper sensitive to these things and comments like that only increase H's insecurity about my level of commitment. But I meant it. I'm NOT doing that again. So, I don't regret saying it. This R will be conducted in an environment of respect or else I do want a D. But maybe I should still try to keep such comments to myself.
(Still_Hopeful) Ya know, you can call the Divorce Busting line and they will recommend a therapist in your area.
No, I didn't know that. That's a great idea.
(Jabez)Congratulations on the positives! I'd second the advice already given and say to take it slow and easy so that there is no retreating back over the steps forward.
Thanks! It always seems that with every step forward there are two steps back. Taking things very slowly would probably help with this. I guess as long as we're always remaining one step ahead, then we're still making progress. It's easier to focus on the two steps that just got reversed than it is to be thankful for the one step forward that remained. It's not in my nature to focus on what I've got. I'm competitive and goal oriented and always want to be at the next level. Doesn't always work that way, huh?
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
H has not slept in my bed again since the night I wrote about. The next night it was just like all previous nights with him going to bed in our room and me sleeping in the study.
The part that makes it so hurtful is that on the night that he slept in my bed, we had a big discussion on how I felt about having a sexual relationship with him sleeping in a different bed. When he came into my bed that night, I thought we had reached an understanding. So, when he hit on me, I responded. We had sex. Too much, too soon. I see now that it was a mistake. I also see now that I absolutely cannot trust him.
I feel like he tricked me to get what he wanted. He doesn't buy that because he didn't initiate the sexual part, I did. But he invited it to such a great extent that to not initiate would have been a rejection if that makes sense.
The ups and downs of this are getting really old. Maybe I am blaming him for my mistake. I am the one that dismissed my boundary for the evening. But it was under false pretenses. Had I known he wasn't planning on sleeping with me from that point on, I would not have done it. I should have waited. I know it's not the end of the world, it was only one time and my boundary is back in place. But it left me once again asking myself what the hell I'm hanging on for.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Isn't it horrible when something so wonderful (potentially) can be wrapped up in so much crud? Sometimes I just shake my head when I hear how some people treat each other. It's supposed to be making LOVE, right?
Take care Heather, I'm thinking of you. B
Each experience in life has formed me, become part of me, made me stronger.
I'm so sorry you're going through this. Do not blame yourself. Sometimes we get in that moment, and our emotions get the better of us, and that is OK. You should not get upset with yourself. Maybe if it happens again, you might play it differently, so you feel a little more in control of your boundaries. But you have to go with what feels right to you. I hope you are doing ok.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
