Hello friends- Haven't posted in a few days, as i was busy with the holidays, etc. I hope everyone was able to enjoy their holiday as much as possible. I do have a lot to write about, but i don't know where to start. I am so emotional today and spent many hours crying. I guess i will start with Saturday.
Saturday H called in morning (left a message i think) wishing me a merry christmas...asked if i would talk to him tomorrow...he said yes. MIL called about 11pm...thanked me for gift...asked when she would see me to give me the gift she got me...made plans for next week. H called about 12:20am to say merry christmas again...i was sleeping. He said "merry christmas love." It was a few second conversation...he was on his way home (or so he says).
Sunday Called H in the morning at home and on cell phone...no answer. He eventually called back and left me a message...said he was in the car (he was supposedly going to his sisters). I called him back right away...no answer.
Monday I called him in the morning...he was home from work...said he was going to a friends house. I told him i was going to the mall...he said "i don't think i need anything from there, otherwise i would meet you." Chatted for a few minutes and then got off the phone. He called again later that evening, 2x...left 1 message. I called him back...talked for a few minutes again..very easy, lighthearted conversation. He offered to go to the doctor with me today (check up at skin cancer doctor)...i said that would be nice. He said he would meet me there.
Tuesday Woke up at 2am...was awake until about 5:30am...all kinds of thoughts invaded my head. Went to doctor...H met me...came in the room and held my hand as doctor took biopsies of some suspicious moles. He said i looked beautiful. On the way home, i just started crying...couldn't stop. I called him...yes a mistake, i know, but i couldn't help it. We ended up talking for almost 2 hours...about our R. I am feeling very hopeless tonight friends. H said that he didn't want to mislead me (i told him it was very confusing to spend all this time with him), but that we were probably getting D. I asked if he was open to the possibility that things could work out for us...he said "i am open to all kinds of possibilities." He said he cannot forgive me for lying to him last year, and that he can't trust me emotionally. He said he misses so many things about me and our life and has all of these memories, but they are tainted. I did ask if there was a chance, and he said that he didn't have a crystal ball and couldn't see into the future, but that we weren't going to be together now. He said i was the love of his life and that there are times when he all he wants is to be with me. But, then he gets scared and doubts that he can trust me b/c i didn't meet his needs for so long. I told him that if there was even a 1% chance, then i would still hold out hope for us. He said he is still ambivalent about even filing for D, as evidenced by the fact that he hasn't done it yet. I did say something about whether it was a matter of "if or when" he would file...he said "if." He said he is not 100% committed to D, but did admit that he was leaning that way. He did acknowledge seeing a lot of changes in me over the past few months. He also said if it was too confusing for us to spend time together and for him to call me, then he would stop doing that. I said no, i didn't want to not have him in my life at all. He said that he definitely feels better since signing the interspousal agreement. I said that i thought that things did get better b/w us once it was signed...he said, see, that's what i told you (he had told me that there was more hope for us if we had an agreement...i don't remember the reason and yes, i know it sounds like BS). He does still seem to be unsure of what he wants to do. When he told me that he couldn't even think about the possibility of getting D, i said, see doesn't that tell you something? He said yes, it tells me that i don't want to hurt anymore. He talked about being lonely...and i told him that i could relate to that feeling. I really don't know what to think anymore. On one hand, he seems to be saying that he is going to go through with the D, and then he will contradict himself. I asked him if was set on going through with it and he said no. He also said that he was going to re-visit the issue after the holidays. I asked "revisit it emotionally, or legally?" He said, "well emotionally. but aren't they tied together?" I also asked him if i should still have hope or if i should give up. He said he couldn't make that decision for me, that that was something i needed to decide on my own. So, i basically still have no answer and still feel as if i am in limbo.
After talking to H, i spoke to my aunt (that i live with). She proceeds to tell me how she knows that my H has a GF, and that he spends most nights at her house. She said she drives by my house to see if he is there. She also told me that she hired someone to follow him last year when we first separated and that he had been found at her house. She also said that people have seen them out at the mall. When i asked who, she said she wouldn't tell. She said he was a liar and a cheat and that she had no respect for him after what he has done to me. She said you and i both know what he has been doing. She feels that he is enjoying his life right now, having 2 woman after him and that there really is no reason to give up either one of us. I told her i couldn't understand if he was with her all last year, why he told me he wanted to work on our marriage and why he had me move back home. Of course, she couldn't answer that. So, i am sure you can imagine how devastated i am. I don't even know what else she said...i imagine she drove by OW's house as well, since she admitted to knowing where she lived.
I feel like my whole world has been turned upside down. I always suspected something b/w them, but i guess a part of me wanted to be in denial. Now, i feel like, how could he love me and lie to my face? And maybe he doesn't love me...maybe that has all been a lie too. And the thought that he wasn't the person i thought he was is nauseating. I think, was i so blind as not to realize what or who he was? But, i remember believing that he loved me and feeling it...could he have been faking it for years? I am emotionally exhausted today. I have a headache from crying. I don't know what to think anymore. Part of me wonders why he just didn't file for D sooner...was he waiting for the agreement to be in place, and once it was, it was too close to the holidays? But, then, why the increased interest in me over the past month. He has initiated more contact with me and made plans to see me more over the past month. Why? Why do this? He said today "i like you" (when i said something about us spending more time together). Great, my H "likes" me. That's as good as "i care about you"...why does that bother me so much?
I am sorry to ramble today. Had a lot to write and am just feeling so emotional. This is a very tough time of year, especially since last year at this time he was making moves towards reconciling, and then did decide he wanted to focus all of his energies on our M (called me new years day and said "let's not do this anymore. lets not be apart anymore"). I keep hoping that will happen again this year, but i don't think so. I just miss my H so much...the man i married. Where did he go? Or was this the person all along, and i just didn't see it?
Hey, Imdi! I've read some of your posts, but I'm not wholly familiar with your sitch, so I apologize for not knowing what's going on.
First, you said in your post that you had always thought there was something between H and this OW. Is this the first you've heard that there's apparently an actual A going on?
Second, the biggest question I had after reading your post was this: What do *you* want to do? Do you want to give up? Do you want to have hope?
The answers all lie within you. Whether or not you have hope is not up to your H; it's up to you. Whether or not you give up is not up to your H; it's up to you.
What are your boundaries? What would it take, in your opinion, to finally "be done?"
RE: H and OW...no, this is not the first time that I have heard about an A b/w them. There have been things over the past 2 years that have made me suspicious. This kind of confirmed it for me, which i really wasn't ready for.
RE: what do i want to do? I want to continue to have hope for my M. My H said the same thing...he couldn't decide for me whether or not i should still have hope. And i do understand that. I guess i just felt like, if there is absolutely no chance for us, and he is 100% committed to D, then why should i still hope? I guess i was looking for him to say something one way or the other. Its like, i have this goal in mind...to be with my H. If all of efforts to reach that goal are really pointless, then what am i doing? Its hard for me to explain. I guess he was trying to say that throughout our R, he was always the one to make decisions, and i always relied on him. Now, he is saying that i need to make decisions for myself. I understand that. Just hard to hope, when the outcome is uncertain.
RE: what are my boundaries? Thats a good question...not sure i have an answer. Knowing what i know now, about him and SOW, i am still willing to forgive him if he decided he wanted to be with me. I have been separated for a year, so i am not sure if there is a time limit for me on when i would say "enough is enough." I don't know what would finally make me throw in the towel. I guess i need to think about that.
I guess at this point, i need to just use his ambivalence to my advantage. And see what happens.
No problem, Imdi. It sounds like you have some things to think about, but I believe one thing you're saying is that you're not ready to give up. And that's good for you.
Now, about having hope without knowing the outcome. Boy, do I know the feeling! I've told myself that a million times. There's not much I can say toward that, but I do have a quote that I've shared on other folks' websites, and I hope it helps you a little; it's one of my favorites:
Have patience with everything unresolved in your heart and try to love the questions themselves as if they were locked rooms or books written in a very foreign language. Don't search for the answers, which could not be given to you now, because you would not be able to live them. And the point is, to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps then, someday far in the future, you will gradually, without even noticing it, live your way into the answer. ~ Rainer Maria Rilke
This state of "not knowing" is actually the most healthy part of the process. It's where we find ourselves. Try to enjoy it. Try to find yourself. That's the whole point of DBing, IMHO. The outcome doesn't matter. It's the process. Here's another of my favorite quotes, this one from Gandhi:
It's the action, not the fruit of the action, that's important. You have to do the right thing. It may not be in your power, may not be in your time, that there'll be any fruit. But that doesn't mean you stop doing the right thing. You may never know what results come from your action. But if you do nothing, there will be no result.
Sorry for hijack but just want to say that the quotes are really good. I especially liked the Gandhi ones.
Imdi - I am in this sh!t for 9 months now...and I am still as confused if not more ....so, join the club. Sorry, can't offer much advice as I am still sooooo yoyo-ing. Just Hang in There and be PATIENT. DOn't ponder tooo much on his actions. Don't ask any questions. Let it be. I find that I get into "trouble' when I ask too many questions....but then it is rather difficult to stop asking...I know...
PandDBing - i like those quotes...got me thinking.
The hardest thing about all of this is the limbo. I have been separated for 13 months now. This is the hardest thing i have ever had to do. I do try to take it one day at a time. And i had been so good lately at not asking questions. But, yesterday, something was just eating away at me and i couldn't help myself. The past few weeks, things b/w my H and i had gotten better. We were spending more time together, that he was initiating. So, i thought that maybe things were heading in the right direction for us. I know that we have a long way to go, but i was willing to do it. My H said to me yesterday "i can't tell you that everything is going to be okay and that we will be together." I told him that i wasn't looking for him to say that, or even that he would go back to counseling. I just wanted to know if there was any chance at all for us. At first, he seemed to be saying no. Then, he seemed to be ambivalent. I mean, he did say that he wanted to be honest with me and didn't want to mislead me, which i appreciate. I guess i thought that the time we had been spending together lately meant more than it did. I just don't understand. There are times when he is acting like he wants to be with me. And then, there are times when he is kind of detached. The not knowing for sure if there is an OW is killing me. I was up at 2:55 this morning, with such anxiety over the whole thing. I think it stems from believing that he has been lying to me for so long. I am now questioning everything he says and does. Does he really love me and miss me? Are his tears for real? I have been thinking about the several late night phone calls i have gotten recently. There have been times over the past week or so where he has called me, just to talk. Either he is sad or doesn't feel well. Why does he do this? I try to figure out if there is an ulterior motive. Or does he just need me at that moment. And i really have no problem being his friend...i strongly believe that if we were to work things out, then we had to be friends first. But the uncertainty is agony. I replay things over and over in my mind, a million times. I know that it isn't healthy, but sometimes i can't help it. I know that DBing should be about me. But, i feel like, all the work that i have been doing is with the goal of getting my H back. But, i wonder who my H is right now. I try to remind myself that right now he isn't the man that i married. But, is this the real him? I have to believe that the first 8 years of our R, he did love me. I did believe that and i felt it from him. I know he adored me...he told me that yesterday...that he had me on a pedastal. I never thought he could have done some of the things he has done over the past 2 years.
I wonder sometimes why he just doesn't tell me the truth about the OW. I mean, if he wants to be rid of me so that he can be with her, doesn't he think that telling me will make me realize there is no chance. I mean, how much easier would his life be if he didn't have to constantly worry about me and lying to me. He would only have to be accountable to her...wouldn't that be easier for him? What is the point of not admitting it? He now has our signed settlement agreement. Why not just tell me the truth and be done with me?
This whole thing is so torturous. He said he needed to get through the holidays and then "revisit" things in the new year. Does he mean start the D process? He is clearly ambivalent. I am not sure he is ready to accept me not being in his life at all. He said yesterday that he couldn't imagine not having me in his life in some form.
He kept saying yesterday that he needs to get away from the pain. I asked him why he thought that getting D would take away the pain and was that the only option. He couldn't answer me. He said, that's a good question. But, really...getting D from me is going to automatically make him stop hurting? I don't think so.
I am hoping that he really will think about things in the new year, and that going back to counseling will help him figure some things out. He did acknowledge that he is not as angry with me as he was, which is good.
I the beginning of our conversation, he said something about this not being about a choice. I beg to differ. I think i did tell him that he could choose to forgive me and trust me. I guess he meant that he feels like he can't forgive me or trust me. Is there a difference? I guess, he could say, okay, i am going to forgive her and trust her. And maybe he would try. But, maybe things would keep reminding him of the pain. Could that be what he meant about it not being a choice. He said this is about a quality of life issue. He doesn't want to live his life constantly questioning me about where i am or who i am with, or checking up on me. I totally understand that. I do think it would be so hard to completely trust him again after all of the doubts that i have. But, isn't that what M and love is all about...working through your problems, learning from your mistakes? Isn't it about in good times and in bad? This isn't something that i took lightly. i made vows, and i intended to keep them for life. How can he give up so easily? If i am the love of his life, how can he even think about being without me?
Thanks to anyone who may read and respond. i appreciate your feedback. i am sorry that i am feeling so sorry for myself right now. hopefully i will come out of this funk soon.
Bless your heart, Imdi. Boy, is that a lot to digest! I have some thoughts. Your feelings seem to be a mirror reflection of mine right before I found out all that I found out with my H two weeks ago. Not saying that's going to happen to you, of course, but I want to respond to some of the feelings you're having. I have a few things to do, but I'll be back around later and will post then. Hang in there, and don't be so hard on yourself. All the questions are perfectly normal, and actually very healthy.
Hey there. HUGS. Ok, so now it seems SOW is really OW. And that is ok. Better to know, actually. The not knowing is what nearly killed me for weeks. If you can make peace with this inside yourself, you will be able to pick yourself up and take care of you right now. I can't answer a lot of your questions only because I've had them myself and still have no answers. Why doesn't H. tell you outright? It could be for many reasons. Maybe guilt; maybe shame; maybe he doesn't know if it will last, so why hurt you with the knowledge? I would not ask him about her. I had a coaching session with Chuck today, and he told me do not acknowledge the o.w. whatsoever. Do not ask questions about her or anything to do with that part of H's life. Believe me, if you read my thread today, it took a lot for me to NOT say anything to H. when I saw that he now carries a photo of o.w.'s daughter in his wallet. It's right there on top so anyone can see it if he opens it up. You have been at this a lot longer than I have, Imdi, so I kind of feel like you are in a different position than I am. I've been separated (but not legally) from H. for almost 5 mo. now. That's nothing compared to your 13. I would not fault you at ALL if you decided to move on and not do this limbo thing anymore; no one would! But I know you want to be with your H. so if you decide to hang in there, the best thing to do is to not ask about o.w. anymore. Ok, so she exists, but I am sure you really figured that all along anyway, right? Just look at it as one less thing you have to wonder about. Now you know. But it has nothing to do with you and your H. That's the most important thing. I hope you are ok tonight; I am thinking about you and I know what the pain feels like. Sending many hugs your way.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
PandDBing - thanks for your reply...i am looking forward to your comments.
Hope - hey there...glad you are back...i was really struggling yesterday, as you can tell.
I have always suspected an ow, as you know. I think i tried to deny it b/c it hurt so much less. The hardest thing is trying to decipher the truth from the lies. I am now questioning everything he says to me, or has said to me. Does he love me? Am I the love of his life? Does he wish things could be different? Is he ambivalent? I don't know what to believe anymore. That is what hurts the most...thinking that maybe he never loved me. Perhaps if he and i had met under different circumstances, i wouldn't be doubting him so much. But, i wonder if he is doing to me the exact things he did to his first wife. And if so, then couldn't he have been lying to me then? I sometimes wonder if he is like a sociopath or something. I think back to so many things over the years and wonder if our whole R was based on lies. The pain that those thoughts cause is unbearable. I sometimes wonder how much more i can take. I love my H so much. I don't understand how he can't see that. I don't understand why he isn't willing to work on this. If i am the love of his life, then how can he even think about being without me? That just does not make sense to me.
I am questioning so many things he has said and done over the past few weeks. Why has he made more attempts to see me? I think about the time we went out christmas shopping a few weeks ago and the smile that was on his face when he saw me...was that faked? Was it just b/c he was happy to see his "friend?" He gave me a card for christmas and signed it "my eternal love." What is that about? He has told me before that the will always love me...i am sure his gf would love to hear that one. And how can he want to be with someone who has so much baggage (ie 2 kids). And their R is based on lies too...she cheated on her H with him...does he not realize that that is so much worse than what i did? And that she could do it to him as well? Does he really want the responsibility of somebody else's kids, when he really didn't even want his own? I just don't get it. I know i am feeling sorry for myself tonight and that all of this is so anti-DBing. I guess i just feel so let down this week. I had been feeling a bit more positive. Now, it seems as if all the signs that i saw as steps in the direction i wanted, really weren't that.
I told my H how he had all the power...he said that he doesn't...that i could go out and file for D today, or fight him if he files. Yes, true, except both of those options end with the same goal, which isn't my goal.
He told me the other night how he has been having a lot of anxiety over the past week or so b/c new years eve is coming up. He said he wasn't even going to ask what i was doing, b/c he thought that was better. Okay, but where will he be new years eve? Am i supposed to believe what he tells me? Maybe we wouldn't be in this sitch if he didn't leave me for 4 days last year to go away with his "cousin." But, he doesn't acknowledge his part in it...its just my fault.
How do i know when enough is enough? Why didn't he just tell me yesterday...give up, move on...instead of leaving it up to me? AAAGH!
But that will drive you nuts with the infamous trio of conjecture, assumption and speculation. DB says to just look at results, the "baby steps". I'll take it one further and say, just enjoy what is, without wondering why. After all, that's what you have in reality, why torment yourself second guessing everything? Today is not tomorrow, and tomorrow may be better yet, so why so focused on obscure things you'll never know the answer to when today is here and tomorrow lies ahead?
I told my H how he had all the power...he said that he doesn't...
He's right. Oh, not so much about that you could file for D, but that's not what you want... but that you have the power in that you're the one that decides when it's over, or if it's not over, because it's not over until you say so, or one of you dies.
