Requiem for a Black Swan (aka Stigmata)

[Stigmata]

arrrrgh. More self talk. Argh.

BF: currently AIM btw(laptop) . Don't have W Mssng. on laptop yet but use all IM phooey on desktop, MSN Mssg; Yhoo Msg; AIM blah.

What were you saying? Arg. I am going to post something in next post on very interesting concept of False North Stars in R.

Yes. All jumble right now but your comment on leading, ie, alpha not letting things aimlessly drift.. More on that later etc.

Yes. Trust, security, fun. Trust is my current quandary. Was going to post this on NOP's relationshipp killers thread but, in essence:

If you say I have trust issues and lie to me in order to "protect my feelings/not hurt me" you are creating irony. I trust. I then always invariably find out the lie (there is a saying: "morality always wins in the end") and you feed further into my trust psychosis like an endless loop.

...grumble...so late...so too tired to even sleep. again.

-Stigmata-

[Corri]

BF:

It isn't up to him to make her feel anything. How can there be emotions then? How can there be a connection if you dont cause the other person to feel? What is the point of LU then?

Emotions are internal barometers, not external. Of what you speak is a simple cause/effect scenario. You can compliment me or put me down, and I will feel a response in my body... a warm fuzzy or a cold prickly. Or I may feel nothing at all, depending on what I've decided you mean to me in my life... how much power I have given you over my emotional domain. It will be different based upon whether you are a stranger or something more significant to me.

If there is NO difference in my emotional response between a stranger and a SO, then I'd say I have not set any internal standards, and my emotional security is floating on the wind of other people's perceptions of me. (Or I have reached the level of master... two ends of the same spectrum).

First and foremost, though, decisions have been made within ME... a decision always preceeds an emotion, a thought, and action.

Why do we have marriages based on romance instead of arrangement then?

<shrug>. Cuz humans are addicted to dopamine and orgasms, and have little to no understanding of 'respect?' You can come to love someone you respect, but I'll go out on a limb and say you cannot harmoniously live with someone you do not respect.

Why do women/SO leave men/SO based on neglect if this is true? Why do they leave when they FEEL mad, hurt, angry, for someone else who does make them feel.

Out of fear that "I" first and foremost, am unlovable. For if I felt lovable, then YOUR neglect would not phase me. I'd simply move on out of respect for myself.

If you have hit a soft spot in me, then I will feel angry, or hurt, or jealous... these are FEAR based emotions. But it isn't because of what you have done... it is because of what I have allowed to fester or have not healed within myself.

If I enter into a relationship with someone, it is not because HE made me feel something... it is because *I* made a decision... otherwise, you are implying that I am at the mercy of anyone who comes along that can get me to feel a certain way... and I really have no choice in the matter.

Corri

[dafty]

Love Hurts
(B. Bryant)

Love hurts, love scars, love wounds and mars
Any heart not tough nor strong enough
To take a lot of pain, take a lot of pain
Love is like a cloud holds a lot of rain
Love hurts, love hurts

I may be slow, but even so
I know a thing or two, I've learned from you
I've really learned a lot, really learned a lot
Love is like a flame, burns you when it's hot
Love hurts, love hurts

Some fools rave of happiness, blissfullness, togetherness
Some fools fool themselves I guess
But they're not fooling me


I know it isn't true, know it isn't true
Love is just a lie, made to make you blue
Love hurts, love hurts

I know it isn't true, know it isn't true
Love is just a lie, made to make you blue
Love hurts, love hurts

Just a random thought from someone.

Be well.

[blackfoot]

Of what you speak is a simple cause/effect scenario.

YEP. and if we want to continue our Romantic Marriages, we should accept that we have to do this. IE, mate you are the most important to me, I will fill your needs and do my part to make you feel.

If I enter into a relationship with someone, it is not because HE made me feel something... it is because *I* made a decision... otherwise, you are implying that I am at the mercy of anyone who comes along that can get me to feel a certain way... and I really have no choice in the matter.

Attraction is not a choice. I dont imply that ,I state it openly and frankly and demonstrate it repeatedly. Neither is the loss of it internally controllable, for most. What you say is true and pure existentialism, achievment of Nirvana, denial of human self. That thinking is for dreamers, idealists, deniers of self, poets, and rationalizing loners. I too am more then one of the following things, but not all thank the great spirit.

Its not accepting of our own drives, needs, and belonging to the human condition. Your drifting off, Ms. Bohemian. <grabbing for the ballon string>
Come back, Stay here with us gross, filthy, intrinsically needy animals.
Time to start working at the opposite of what comes naturally.

[Stigmata]

...current state: feeling very even. Low hum. Oscilloscope crests/troughs flattening out.

Old Business:

NOPkins. Thank you for the comments. I should clarify on my 20 kiloton meltdown. A was 4 years ago. Rained verbal assault as she deserved. Thought I could bury it. Couldn't. I didn't interrogate enough until I had all my answers. Completely caught offguard as zero signs of strife. Fast Fwd. 4 years later; this year.

X previous lover calls to commiserate his current GF cheated on him and it was over. X likes to keep all past lovers as friends. The M ones aren't friends anymore due to obvious reasons. I was zero threatened by call. M thousands and thousands of miles away anyway. This is toughy. Heard both sides of argument. Lot of Fs say if someone was that meaningful to them at one point then they are worth knowing as friends even if feeling is gonegonegone.

However, I see these Ms as hangers-on and she either doesn't or denies it to self. In fact, I know 2 are right now sniffing around X to see if they can deposit LUnits.

So his constant calling, whining, makes me snap. Memories of first OM, who was in same sitch. X was his shoulder to lean on and that's how A started.

Kaboooom. Overreaction IMO. I dredged up EVERYTHING. Name called. Thwacked character; full on Jackie Chan'd on her in the LBank withdrawal column for A with OM etc. etc. I forgave 4 years earlier but obviously not. Unfair to make a person keep reliving something they want to forget themselves.

So, as you have said recently. That's why A's are so damned tough. No C will touch them. I only had literature ex post f. Too late 4 me.

2. I am done with her; at least the current iteration of her. X. It is that because I do not know who this person is. Alien. Hmmm, alien. Think there's a tie-in somewhere to "The X-Files."

3. Do I want her back? I don't know. Still think I'm in bomb damage assessment modus. Wondering if it might be brain drug addiction.

...now on to BF:

So first Stig if you dont mind I will share a epiphany I had today, that most likely will be completely obvious to everyone else, but for me well I am glad for my sleep deprived, brain slowing, over worked current state.
- No. Fire away.

I have been Reading Nops statement for weeks now. It rivited me. Its been like a crappy Journey song, revolving in my head.

-Damned NOPs. Oracles at Delphi. Wise sages.

I believe that the mans mental state controls the R. Schnarch? says that a woman is a mirror to the man in a R. Biologically they are receivers to our transmitter.

- I think there's something to this. Very bad mental state in pre-bomb months. PTStress disorder, toxic people in too close proximity; finances. X gone a lot around "fun" people. Resentment.

I see this dynamic, this theory, repeated often here, and the phrase 'Ive lost myself coming from women in LTR.

- Yes. I think it's death if the M and the F both are charged negative for any period of time. One of them must be positive whether they feel like it or not. Maybe ingrained that Fs need to feel positive, safe, home harmony or will fly the nest? Conversely, chronic hen-pecked M will flee as genes are telling him to reassert his dominant role, even if with a more supplicating receptive F?

Whats my point?

I added OM to my M. I treated him like a brother, loved him, included him in everything. My wife followed my lead and emulated me. He copied me in certain areas, and her differentiation of us was blurred even more.

- Hm. Your EC to OM then obviously flowed through to x. I think it's plausible. Cardinal sin of every single mammalian procreation etc. instinct. Cannot be 2 alphas in same herd. Cannot. Chaos. Bighorn sheep. Elk. Moose. Deer. Duel. Face to face. Whack! Ramshorn collision until one is bloody, dazed, and retreats to new territory. Your generosity/trust/kindness to OM clouded your need to be #1. Don't beat yourself up. It's called being a friend. It's what separates humans from animals and why guys like you and I can't always default to these animal alpha analagies (try as we might, lol). And animals don't trust like we do. OM, if you are correct in that he has been like he is from childhood, (survival of fittest etc.) is what we would call a sociopath.

Sociopaths don't care about best friend's feelings. Empathy is not a strong suit. A guy with character/respect would never have crossed that line. Not a friend. Didn't deserve to have friends like you and x. Rogue.

Hard to say. X probably weak to charm but if she initiated, different story somewhat. Still. At first OM pass at her in improper way her loyalty to you should have informed you. Yes. We all make mistakes. Just this kind of mistake is so g'damned f'ing hard. Grr!

She did what I did. She loved him. and the resulting romantic explosion wrecked and confused her, terribly.
- What was that line in "As Good As It Gets" with Jack? What's a woman? "Take a man and remove all rationality and accountability." lol. It's okay, ladies, j/k.

I of course booted him, he betrayed me, but not her. she still had the love.
- Or the NGF love chemical anyway that doesn't last.

So it wasnt her not choosing me, it was simply her following IMO her nature, her programming, what she was designed to do. Mirror the man/ men in her life, follow his/ their lead.
-Men being the pejorative term. Only need to follow 1. Yep, dead horse.

and I 'got' why I was an infidel. I 'got' why even though I have said I wouldnt let OM live with me again; my anger and not understanding this probably obviousness to everyone else, inside I have been muttering "I set her up to prove she loved me". " I should be able to take MY Wife anywhere". " 'never trust another woman'

- Yes. But she still had a choice. Howse it go? "Integrity is what you do when no one is looking." Trumps brain chemistry IMO. But we do make mistakes. Just very very hard to judge "true" remorse and potential for future repeat.

and all my resentment and superior perverse satisfaction that I did 'everything' right and OM's rightness in proving attraction over choice just floated away. Like a helium ballon.

- 99 Luftballoons.

So know I just feel this very relaxed, understanding. And real forgivness. I dont let her off the hook for her choices and am not going chasing after her with this new insight.

- Excellent on the forgiveness. Gives you your power over the A back. No, she's on the hook and needs this kind of epiphany as well. There are negative consequences to bad behavior. The dog holding bone in mouth parable. He's looking at his reflection in the river. He sees what looks like another dog with tasty bone. He wants it. Goes to bite other dog to get 2nd bone. Bone from mouth drops into river. Reflection is destroyed. And he is left on the river bank with nothing for his hubris.

But I did realize a couple other things.
First I could have 'won' her back. I believe this because, besides my arrogance, I know attraction. I know her. I know woman code and got loads of it just before D, and I know exactly how to go about it.
- I have no doubt. But it would have been forced/artificial. Only reflection and time from both camps will determine the natural course. I do believe in synchronicity and fate to extent. New better F may drop in life, maybe not. Ball's in x court. She initiated this mess. She'll have to initiate her further involvement with you and you as the one who decides final outcome.

Stig if you decide to do that, I will be interested in how Nops advice and if I may offer, mine, will mesh. I did it the first time with 12 contacts, less then 3 months time, a butt load of resentment, and some struggle to control incongruence. But my inability to reason because of insecurity and OM and my Entitlement to a woman who is above biology... (which would make her better then I ) mmmm... she didnt deserve me the second time. LOL. Because Im perfect. hold the hoots and howls of laughter please.

-I am only speaking when spoken to, despite my love drug withdrawals, which have been kicking my a$$. I don't want to be the junkie who sells his kid so he can score another fix of worthless stepped-on sh1t. (ooops, sorry x, that was a bit harsh). I am very torn. But rollercoasters will do that to you. One moment want; next don't want.

Some of this realization was brought on by past behaiviors of mine. Things that I used to do, but couldnt this time. g/f's from the past who had mentioned OM, a kiss, interest in dating someone else yada yada. In all cases I would simply not care. Reply with 'OK'. or 'you should date him'. Or 'whatever you want' and then just move on without any reactivity, doing my thing living my life without a missed beat. I truly didnt care, there choices would effect me not at all. It lead to same conclusion every time. previous g/f's loss of interset in OM usually within a day, sometimes housrs of remark.

- I would like to flesh this out more at some future point. F testing. Why do they do this sh1T? And it only works in short term Rs. It's called complacency in long term Rs. I know of specific example. Friend of mine with brand new D has GF. Said she multiple cheated on her H b/c he didn't care what she did. Said she felt he gave her too much freedom and didn't feel special to him. Despite that he more than fulfills every Harley check list.

Why was I unable to do this as-if, this Alpha behaivior, this 'you SHOULD take care of YOU' belief with my wife. I dont know, dont know that you should have to in a marriage, but do know that I created the sitch. Know that insecurity, and neediness is majority of it. Dependance.

- I became insecure even more after she starts pulling away to stronger Ms. Subsequent exponential increase in insecurity. Control storm troopers move in. Very counterproductive.

I have this awareness without needing to berate myself, castigate myself, or try to own her crap.
- Bravo.

Its so interesting. for her, I dont have the resentment, dont have the needy feeling, dont have anger. I am curious what reviewing this epiphany mentally will have, next time I have a withdrawal.

- Preaching to the choir, brother. I don't feel these right now because I clearly see now how my attractiveness I let slide away under my nose. Have lots of man-building to go. Doesn't mean she's off hook. It has been shown if you can stay with same person 2 straight years or longer you form a bond that will be very hard to sever. She needs to mature. I won't wait around forever, will not be disrespected, and will not become beta again...ever. I don't want her back currently. Tomorrow I will. That's how it goes and I f'ing hate it.

I dont think I am an Infidel, anymore. Now to git rid of that polyester(layer of player) suit....

- Yes. Speaking of. Mea apologia for the rambling neg on layer of player diatribe. Sleep-deprived delirium and glitchy computer. Know you've seen all that nonsense. Being true to Self. Here to learn and grow. Thought I would be having kids in near future etc. and settling in for long haul. Now it seems I have to go fishing again and I have little patience for the 'get to know you' crap. Whatever is outcome am taking time away to GAL, make list of goals for 2006, and not looking ahead or back.

so days before D x emailed me. A straight out apology for her actions in TX. I was stunned. Floored. Never expected it. First time. previously she just said, 'I made mistakes.'
- Wow, talk about a last meal request.

She Couldnt understand why, who she was, what happened to us ( what is this a hoobastank song, I hate musical references tied to emotions. They never end. Like smells.)
- Hmmm. The what happened to us part is pretty easy to figure out. Don't touch the merchandise! Thwack! to hand.

She's figuring herself out now, that's for sure. Needs to be content with herself first at this point on.

Also included comparisons to OM, unfavorable for him, like I want to hear that Sh1t. Women are so dumb.

- Ack! Last thing we want to hear! Makes it sound so phony too. Then why all the love sonnets and crap, huh?! It's TOOOOO late now! Sheesh.

WOA. Never got that from her whole R, except a squince just post reconcil, and 1 phone call a few months back.

- Hmm, tough to decipher this one. Why? (not to you but asking her).

...never needed it, never thought of it.

- But would have been nice all the same ding-dong girl.

...Created suprising warm fuzzies, and anger. Memories of chat logs filled with WOA for OM. Caused massive jealousy at the time.
- Arrrgh. Memories. Thought stopping now, thank you. Criminey.

(isnt being able to remember eveything you read fun?)

- A resounding NO.

...visualize making sweet sweet love...

- Shudder. Brrrr...so glad I could visualize the x-rated chats in detail. Made my life so much easier and fun for all involved. Thanks!

Well see if my epiphany smooths out the rollarcoaster now. I think it will. I feel something different.

---

- Yeah. After pondering all the comments from all, esp. the Fs, I realized recently I need to let go and work on Self. Took on more work for holidays and will spend same with relatives. This love opiate brain addiction withdrawal has shredded my cognition and I need to be still of mind at some point over holidays and maybe ask for some spiritual guidance, which has been sorely lacking on my part, if not nonexistent. Christmas always good for that (and not in the Scrooge kind of horror). LOL.

-Stigmata-