bigAl, this is journaling in response to your thought-provoking question about good vs. evil.
NYS, if you're reading this, keep in mind it's journaling. Venting. Might not be rational. All the dots might not connect.
I think a very fine line exists between doing what's right and doing something out of revenge, especially in such an emotional sitch. In fact, I would argue that the line is sometimes very blurred.
When I first started contemplating what I would do in regard to my H's adultery issue, my first idea was to do what's right by me and my unborn child (I can't really include the girls, because they're not H's legal obligation). I don't want to find myself in the position I was in after ex-H left me to raise D8&D9. Three years after that D was all said and done, I found myself scraping pennies just to survive. I literally lived off school-loan refunds, which now I'm repaying.
But at what point do I stop? I mean, I don't know exactly how much I'll need to survive. But that's what the courts' financial affidavits are for, I suppose. Being preggo and abandoned and cheated on, not many judges won't be sympathetic toward me. Maybe one or two that wouldn't. In other words, the odds are in my favor that I could prolly get more from my H than it actually takes for me to survive.
The question is: What *is* the right thing to do? Do I live life mediocre just to make sure I'm not incurring any bad karma? Or do I understand this sitch for what it is: My dream life being ruined by two selfish people ... then I fight fire with fire by being selfish myself? Or am I actually being selfish by wanting a better-than-average life for me and my baby? By fighting to provide us a life close to what I was accustomed to, at least financially?
I don't want to go into the darkness with H and OW. I want to stand in the light. But I don't want to be naive. I don't want to make decisions based on my bad feelings, or my good feelings, toward H. Or my bad feelings toward OW.
They both did something that was very inconsiderate of me. That may be excused by them, or by people who say "This has nothing to do with you; it's about them." But I won't excuse it. There's nobody looking out for me but me. And what they did is not okay.
My point is, bigAl, that I don't know the difference right now between getting what I deserve, doing the right thing and seeking revenge. I can't figure that one out. Maybe the answer will come to me in time. That's why I'm writing about it, and certainly taking peoples' responses to heart. I'll go back to my favorite quote, which I posted on BB's thread not too long ago. This is where I am right now, in a state -- again, as BB would say -- of total groundlessness. And this really is the only place to be. Nothing in this life is permanent. Not even my feelings.
"I beg you…to have patience with everything unresolved in your heart and try to love the questions themselves as if they were locked rooms or books written in a very foreign language. Don’t search for the answers, which could not be given to you now, because you would not be able to live them. And the point is, to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps then, someday far in the future, you will gradually, without ever noticing it, live your way into the answer…" ~Rainer Maria Rilke
I'm curious too about the answer to your questions...It seems like there should be *some* sort of justice in this situation, even if that justice comes in the form of a monthly check! No one deserves to go through what you're dealing with right now, so does money at least help? I don't know either!!
I look forward to seeing some responses from those who have more insight! It just isn't fair that these guys can turn into major jerks, want to end the marriage, have an affair, file for divorce AND somehow come out okay financially! I say destroy him, but I speak out of a lot of anger right now from my sitch too!
Isn't it weird how so many people on this board are experiencing a decline in their situation? Our WAS must be feeling the pressure of messing everything up around Christmas! I hope they all feel terrible, empty and lonely on Christmas Day!
I've re-read your entire situation and some of the decisions you are struggling with with. Some questions... and then some thoughts come to mind.
1) Your H has stated that he did not want the child. You also have stated that he has gone around saying the child is not his. My H did the same when I was pregnant, insisted on DNA test, etc. My feelings at the time mirrored yours now.
However, some time after our S3 was born, I came to find out that my H was the result of a breif affair his mother had in her early 20's with a man in his mid-40's. H had been brought up by his mother to beleive he was the result of a separate affair his mother had with another man in his 40's, a man H had only connected with a few years prior to learning the truth of his biological roots. Having not had a father most of his life, and a very controlling, manipulative mother, this was a huge blow for him. The alledged father quickly dropped his relationship with my H after the truth came out. The experience colored my H perceptions about fatherhood, relationships, etc., and I contributed greatly (I believe) to how he handled my pregnancy.
Why do I bring all this up? I'm wondering if there isn't something in your H's past that is bringing up similar issues for him? Fear of fatherhood; confronting hurts of the past, etc. Have you considered where the root of some his statements about your unborn son may be stemming from? I know from my expereince, though it did not excuse my H's behavior during my pregnancy, it certainly put things into context and colored the experience differently for me afterwards. Utimatley, this made it easier for me to forgive him for his behavior and to move on pass the anger.
It may be something to think about.
2) I love that you are a strong woman; very much like myself. However, I also know from my sit w/ my H, that my strength at times also carries over to control issues, and causes problems between H and I. I'm wondering if this might not be a bit of an issue between you and your H as well, given some of the statements he's made about you and his imaginary "June Cleaver". I also find it intertesting that H tried to "blame" you for the end of the reconcilation after you walked in on him. Do you think that perhaps his perception of that encounter was you trying to take control from him, trying to control the end results of siatuations in his life? Please don't take this to mean that what he did was right, and what you did as wrong.... I was just thinking if this was an issue for him, it could perhaps put into context his negative behavior since that encounter.
3) Finally.. some thoughts, from one who has been there.
I do sense a lot of internal conflict in you still; anger, resentment, jealousy, hurt, sadness, trapped, etc. And I really feel for you, because I know the pregnancy really enhances those feelings.
My advice is to not act out in anger and hurt though, because utimatley it does not serve the baby's best interests. I struggled too with this one... but the more I thought about it, the only outcome I saw for my H and I when I was pregnant was negative.... if I pushed.
I realized putting my H in a financially hurtful situation would not utimatley serve the interests of my son, as it would cause H to have less time for S b/c he would need to work more, as well as cause an undue amount of stress for H, making him less emotionally available for S. THis does not mean not to seek support for S; but to seek more than is needed due to feelings of revenge/resentments, etc., may not be the best tactic to undertake for your son. As they say... money isn't everything.
I also realized that if I continued to act out in in anger and hurt, it would create further distance betweem H and I, and make us less effective parenting partners.... again, utimatley hurting our S. This does not mean I just let H go on his merry way, drinking, partying, and generally having a life of no responsability while I was pregnant. But I made a point to give him space and "choose" certain battles, so to speak, with him. I felt that by calmly handling issues important to me regarding the pregnancy and our R, I was not allowing him to walk all over me, even if he then acted out in ways that I did not approve of, nor could control. I realized that acting out in anger and spite only reinforced that he was indeed, walking all over me...... By maintaining my calm, I was able to show strength and conviction, and gain some respect and trust in the process.
Additionally, the six weeks of darkness between H and I when I was pregnant really helped me focus, calm myself and my emotions, and plan a strategy of "attack" for when dealing with H when coming out of the dark... You do have 4.5 months to go before your due date, so you do have a bit of time to play with. Might serve you good, as others suggested, to limit contact and stop the pursuing behaviors, before embarking on any irreversiable course (lawsuit, etc). It may also help you determine whether or not your are reacting out of hurt, or geninune conviction.
Sorry if I'm rambling a bit here. But I hear you sister and know its not easy. Just don't let the anger and hurt color your perception of what actions best serve you and the baby. I know its hard to swollow our pride sometimes, but utimatley, at times, it serves us better in these situations....
I'm keeping tabs on you...
PF
Last edited by petiteflower; 12/21/0505:09 PM.
PetiteFlower
Quote: Follow Your Bliss
~Joseph Campbell
Hey preggo, glad you are thinking about it. I will say that taking care of you and your child financially is the RIGHT thing to do. As you say, there are professionals who will figure out those amounts. Letting your life slip into poverty again because you feel badly is not the right thing when you have children to raise.
I wasn't really trying to ask you to decided what is revenge and what is just right. It may be impossible, and it may change in your mind and heart over time. I guess what I am hoping for is a little peace for you. Not peace that comes from fiery anger that burns away all the hurt. Like all fires that intense, that will burn out quickly and leave you cold unless you keep feeding it. Just peace to carry this child and bring him into the world. Peace to not keep going back and going back to the H issue but letting it go. It ain't a peace that's easy to get, and I sure as heck don't have it yet. I guess that's why I am wishing it for you instead of telling you how to get it.
bigAl, if I find it, you'll be the first to know how to get it.
Andrea, if I have any revelations on doing the right thing vs. revenge, you'll be the first to know.
petiteflower, you're too wonderful for taking such an interest in what's going on. I thank you so very much. More later, because I want to address everything, but I'm copying and pasting something below from one of my first threads (sooooo very funny, re-reading this now, that *I* referred to his mom as June Cleaver. Weird!):
My H's family has an interesting past. My H can go a month without talking to them, but feels guilty after a while. His mom is like June Cleaver (isn't that her name??). His dad, well, he's apparently changed a lot in recent years. I've only seen him as very affectionate and loving toward his wife and sons.
There's a 9-year age difference b/w my H and his older brother. When his older brother was 18, he was apparently hanging out at a bar where many of the area's gays would meet. Dad found out his son was going to be there one night and went tearing out of the house to the bar. Mom made a warning call to the bar -- too late. Dad drags son out of the bar and home, kicks him out of the house, the family, and so on...
Classic, eh?
My H was a tender 9 years old at the time and witnessed the fiasco. From then on, Dad made my H "the man" -- had him in the garage working on race cars, throwing wrenches, cussing fits, God only knows what else.
This is where my H's temper came from -- and why, I believe, he never really cared to be around his dad.
But since we've been together, I've only seen his dad as very loving. Later found out it was b/c Mom (i.e. Betty Crocker) finally threatened to leave b/c Dad was a tireless workaholic.
The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
I never understood my H's bitterness toward his dad. I never pursued it much. My H just said he didn't like his dad b/c of how hard he was on him and how he treated his brother -- though my H and his brother aren't really that close. Brother has a great partner now -- seems very content -- but has tried to commit suicide, even recently, and got in trouble with drugs when he was younger.
But my H has always be very pleasant to his dad in front of me. They still work on cars and hang out in the garage any time we're all together (which is only two or three times a year).
His mom and I have talked about this in happier times. We cried together b/c of it. All she wanted was for her son to be better than his dad was. She regrets being such a doormat, though she says she understands why she did it at the time. And she hated to know my H was showing some of the same behaviors as his dad (working all the time, mainly).
She said she was proud that her son had found somebody who wouldn't be a doormat. Obviously, though, that has come back to bite me in the you-know-what.
I don't really know the point of all that. A)I believe it may somehow explain my H's apparent fear of becoming a biological father, especially if something happened b/w my H and his dad that I am unaware of. B) It shows how my H's family responds to family crises. C)It just feels good to get it off my chest.
Don't get me wrong. My H is a wonderful man -- I know you read that a lot, but he really is ... or was. Look at how he took my two daughters in like they were his own. I think he ran so far from his family because he wanted something different than they offered. And we created something different. He treated me and my daughters like we were princesses. That's why it's so hard to understand what he's done now. When he worked too much, I called him out for it, and he took notice and changed immediately. Him turning out to be like his dad was a very bitter subject -- one that I only brought up twice, and those were times of desperation for me...
Nothing new to report. Heck, since I've "given up," I guess there *won't* be anything new to report, except results of various legal actions, etc. I'm afraid that's not really what these boards are about, so it might be time for me to hang it up for a while.
Things are okay around here. Had to call H twice this week -- once to ask exactly which button to push on the alarm system, since I haven't used it, and again today to find out if I could use a key to the garage to hide the girls' Christmas presents. He's still very "blah" when we talk, but at least he left the key for me to use without too big a fuss. He did tell me that it's the only one he has, and told me not to lose it. I told him I wouldn't intend to.
I guess I'm signing off for now, guys, not unless something exciting happens. I'll check in some, though.
While I understand why you don't want to post when you don't feel like you have any developments, but know that we do care for you and want to hear how you're doing! I know this situation is so ridiculous, but I have hope for you and your baby that life will be okay. You obviously have an incredible amount of strength and that encourages others! Know that you will be in my thoughts and prayers!
Have a Merry Christmas despite him - he certainly won't be happy without you!!
I told him I wouldn't intend to.