Ya know, I guess I have to wonder if it's really over from his perspective. He told me today (and last night) that he's "done." I'm kinda blaming myself for "tipping the scales" in OW's direction.
But H also told me three months ago -- and just over three weeks ago -- that our M was over. "I'm moving on. It's over." And look what happened...
I went through this with ex-H, too. I would be convinced that I did something to screw everything up. I would just *know* that he would never come back. And he always did. Only for of course, but he'd always come back. I'm not playing that game this time.
Ex-H and H are two different people, though, ya know? I feel today that I've lost H for good, and that makes me sad. Really. Now what does that mean for me? Not sure. Time will tell, I suppose.
Hey P&DB...I wrote a nice, long, wise post out to you earlier today...and have no idea where it went! I probably got logged off before I hit enter!
Anyhow, I think you are doing great, with all you've had to handle. You let your H know how you felt about all this (WHO would think you would be "OK" with him having goodbye sex! Um, sorry, NO) and you also let him know you are going to take some time to decide how much you think you can forgive - so you didn't close the door entirely.
Just take it slow. If this is going to be fixed, it will be a long process and you have lots of healing to do. Forgiving takes time, and what you feel today may not be what you feel tomorrow.
I think you have had a good insight into H's problem and it seems to me that it stems from low self esteem. He believes, sometimes any way, that the hard core PNDB is too much for a guy like him. That what he needs is June Cleaver because he is really not special enough or manly enough or smart enough or whatever to truly spark love and accompanying ideas of admiration or respect in someone like you.
You have done what you needed (and what you felt you should) and now you can let him decide if he is man enough after all, but please find something to occupy your mind meanwhile. Come here and help us with your obviously keen insight into human behavior and motivation. You have put enough effort into the whole thing with him for awhile, but I know how hard it is to resist trying something else or dwelling.
BTW, I have a shiney new dollar that says he has real problems believing that the hardcore PNDB is crying her eyes out over this right now. For what it's worth, he oscillates between thinking you are an ultra tough, fem nazi and remembering the moments of tenderness between you. He is telling himself that those tender moments were all faked by you or he has forgotten them for nonce.
(VJ) you also let him know you are going to take some time to decide how much you think you can forgive - so you didn't close the door entirely.
Ya know, this is where I'm confused about my own self. In validating my H's feelings over the past month, and in really trying to save my M, I feel kinda like I've lost myself. I don't know if that makes sense. I mean, I've seen the changes that DBing can make. But my H's sleeping with someone else. He tells me that was the first time, but I'm not stupid. His phone records indicate that he called OW moments before he called a hotel that he and I had been at, ML all night, in the mountains, just a month before. He didn't call OW for the rest of the weekend. So 2+2 has always equaled 4 to me.
But regardless, my DBing efforts worked. He was getting ready to come home, right? But he's still sleeping with her??? Does that make sense? What did DBing do for me? Yeah, perhaps it was going to bring *a* H home, but not *my* H. Maybe he would've come home and continued to see how naive I was *choosing* to be because I was validating d**n near everything he was doing. And then he would've decided that he could carry on both Rs. Gawd knows by the looks of things, OW wouldn't have minded. Skank.
The "old" P&DB would tell him to f**k off, because now that I can deduce he's been seeing her for some time, I don't feel like *I* should be the one trying to chase him. And I want so badly to tell him that. I want to be done working on the M, but I don't necessarily want it to *be* done. Does that make sense?
I guess at the end of the day, I want to see some remorse from him. I want to see the guilt instead of the anger. But from everything I read, that's not going to happen. So where does that leave me? Continuing to put effort into saving my M? Or do I just throw in the towel until he's awake from whatever nightmare he's living in?
I guess I feel like I've done everything backwards; and a lot of that stems from me not being true to myself and my feelings throughout this process. Then again, maybe that's my ego. Because I am, after all, pretty humiliated by what went down this week -- and what I didn't pick up on, apparently from the beginning of our separation.
Right now I can't decide if I want to continue being the water, or if I want to let my ego get the best of me. I feel like my M is doomed no matter what I do, so why not go out in that hardcore fashion he admires so much? Why don't I just tell him to f**k off, then sue both their freakin' socks off? Why *don't* I do that?
what you feel today may not be what you feel tomorrow.
Am I ever learning that the hard way!
(bigAl) Come here and help us with your obviously keen insight into human behavior and motivation.
Don't worry, bigAl; I'll be sticking around here. Don't know that my insight counts for much anymore; after all, look at the sitch I'm in, ya know? But I've certainly got a lot of hot air, and some ideas to go along with it.
You have put enough effort into the whole thing with him for awhile, but I know how hard it is to resist trying something else or dwelling.
That's the heart of my dilemma. I feel like I've put forth *all* the effort. And then what do I get in return? Catching my H in a compromising sitch?? That's it??? That's my reward??? *This* is what I've worked for? We were taking freakin' baby steps, ya know? I can't forget that. But I *certainly* can't forget what I saw the *day* after he re-committed to me. I guess I could've let everything roll off my back on Wednesday, like I have for the past three months. I guess, in order to "save my M" , I should've never walked in the house to begin with, when I knew in my gut what was going on. And I guess I shouldn't have immediately acted on this thought: "That bastard! Maybe he left me for her, instead of all this garbage he's been throwing at me, blaming *me* for everything, since day one." When I thought that, I decided to snoop so I could have the legal angle I needed to blow his sorry a$$ outta the water. I was getting ready to accept blame for his leaving. I actually bought into his sh!t!
I had to know the truth. That's all there is to it. There was a reason everything came down the way it did.
But I really have to wonder, without *me* working on the M, what's going to happen to it? He's ready to give up. I'm tired of trying. So that's that? We just go about our merry ways?
One of my *biggest* fears is that I'm going to get over him. I'd like to say I could leave the door open for a while. But if he's not walking through it, I know how I am. I've done this a million times. He leaves and stays gone for a while. I'm humiliated and ticked that I'm sitting at home preggo while he's out, able to do everything he wants to do, including getting laid. My anger builds over the months, even though I'd still take him back. The baby's born. He realizes he wants to be with me. By then, *I'm* able to go out and do what I want to do, including getting laid. I'm able to go out with friends and drink 2 or 5 or 12 drinks. F**k him!! He left me for that long, and just when *I* can live *my* life again, he wants to throw his sorry foot in *my* door? No. I'll be done.
And that's what happens.
He is telling himself that those tender moments were all faked by you or he has forgotten them for nonce.
Perhaps you're right, but we've shared several tender moments in the past few weeks. I hope he remembers those...
(Sorry for the anger this a.m., guys. I guess you can tell what emotion in that lovely cycle I was feeling when I woke up. )
...Holy crap!!! I'm on a roll. I just had another revelation. (Yes, again, I'm very angry right now; glad I have the boards to vent to).
Saturday night, after H takes me out on a kicka$$ date, we get home, and we're lying on the couch, and he says, "Wanna go upstairs and ML?"
ML? ML???????????? Is that what that is? Love????
But here's the revelation:
He's following a pattern here. He did this same thing -- the "goodbye" sex -- with his XGF after he had been seeing me for a month. That's right. He's done this before. But that time, he came crawling to my house, crying, bringing my flowers, because he was "so upset" about what he had done.
But he did it. The only difference is that this time, he's justifying what he did, saying, "Well, I'm not freaked out, either. I mean, I told you about her...she just called to see if she could bring me lunch, and we decided to have sex." Ackhole!!!!
Pregnant, have you read my stitch? Your H and I are behaving the same way.
-He blames me for everything -Db works and he starts to come back around, thinking about reconciliation -I find out about OW and he is still seeing her, while coming back around -He cries and shows remorse and comes back home
I ended up hitting him (bitch slap on the arm) and he left again after much talking. Now I am back into fun limbo land.
Hey, caverna. I've read some of your sitch, but I didn't realize the similarites; guess I didn't go that far back. At this point, I wish my H would show remorse. But I don't see it happening. And maybe it's not the time. 'Cause I think I'd bitchslap him, too.
Is there something specific you will or won't do or is it a frame of mind? Are you NOT going to date (or get laid) for example. Are you NOT going to sue the snot out of H? Are you NOT going to file for D? What will be different about what you do or what you feel you can do if you leave the door open for H as opposed to slaming it shut? Which things do you want or can you live with?
2) What is the difference between being done and no longer doing all the work to save the M and going dark?
The situation seems to call for behaving as though you are done and seeing what happens. As a couple of folks have pointed out, it is what you need to do. Why is there a conflict between that (which is a course of action motivated by trying to fix your R) and just being done (which is a course a course of action motivated by giving up on your R). Seems like either way, you will be doing the same things. SO do them UNLESS there is some line you don't want to cross unless you are done. If so, what is that line? And why don't you want to cross it? Is it the legal machinations? Is it having someone else? What?
3) You are afraid that you won't get over him and when he comes crawling back you'll have to drop all the fun things you can see doing once single because you want him back. If he comes "crawling" back, maybe there is something you can do BESIDES just dropping everything and re-assuming your H/W roles? Seems like not only is there something else you can do, but also it would be the wisest thing to do. Crawling back is step 1. The next few steps are working out what went wrong between you together and figuring out what actions, boundaries, etc. will be required so that your R will work out.
In other words, if he comes back, you have the power (my little power hungry pregnant girl) to dictate terms. What are they going to be? You don't have to say "Oh, Well, ok. Move back in". Think about what needs to happen if that scenario occurs.
Oh, and don't talk to ME about giving up chances to get laid BTW. What's it been - a week?
Keeping my heart open to him. So I guess it’s a frame of mind. I don’t want to file for D. Yes, I’ll likely sue the snot out of H – but only after my head and heart have agreed that I don’t want him anymore.
Fact is, bigAl, that I’m preggo. I don’t have to worry about whether I want to date someone else. Nobody wants to date two-people-in-one. In reality, would I be dating people this instant if the possibility existed? Yes. Would I sleep with them? Depends on how much I had to drink. But it would all be an effort to “move on.” I’m having to face that right now without the help of anything: alcohol (even socially), late nights hanging out with friends, sex, any of that. And it irritates the sh!t outta me that he can do all those things and I can’t. I know that sounds really crappy, but it’s true. I’m envious of his life right now, because I know if I had access to that kinda of life, I wouldn’t be sitting here pining away over the a$$hole.
To answer your question about what would be different if I left the door open as opposed to slamming it shut, I guess nothing. I guess my biggest challenge is leaving the door open for him without trying to get him to come home, as I feel I have been doing the past couple months. I’m almost addicted to DBing, and I believe it’s starting to hurt me because my H is abusing my validations and understanding.
What is the difference between being done and no longer doing all the work to save the M and going dark?
A feeling. I can go dark with intentions of working on myself blah, blah, blah. But let’s face it: Most people do that to “show” their Ss what they’ll be missing. To become a better person so their S sees the change and wants to come home. I don’t mean to sound egotistical, but I’m already a decent person with a great job and great children and great hobbies and great friends who I hang out with. I already know myself. I already have a life. I already stay busy. I don’t necessarily need to work on me; I'm in touch with me, so all I’ve really had time to do is “go dark” in an attempt to waste my time, because I know that time is the great healer. And the longer I’m without H and not contacting him, the closer I am to getting over him. Let’s call a spade a spade.
The situation seems to call for behaving as though you are done and seeing what happens.
I feel like I may have already screwed that up with writing him a letter that was actually quite nice. I told him we should give one another a week to truly consider what we wanted. I guess at the end of next week I don’t have to call him or talk about the letter at all, then just move into behaving as though I’m done. Going dark, in other words. I've already started that. I can just keep doing it without mentioning the letter. I guess that’s what I should do. Just ignore that I ever wrote the stupid sappy validating letter in the first place. Right now, I wanna forget that I ever validated his stupid feelings in the first place.
I can’t seem to muster up any energy or opportunity to truly "move on" with my life. Being preggo, regardless of what anyone says, is a major obstacle to moving on. I can’t go work out double-time in the gym. I can’t go out to bars and forget my troubles for a while. I can’t go out with guys – I mean, I could, but they’d prolly have to be pretty sick-o to want to date a preggo girl. Let’s be honest. I can't even really dress up and look pretty 'cause a) I don't have the will or energy and b)I don't have the stinkin' wardrobe. Okay, I'll be honest. I'm pregnant for cryin' out loud. I don't feel too d*mn pretty right now.
You are afraid that you won't get over him and when he comes crawling back you'll have to drop all the fun things you can see doing once single because you want him back.
No. I’m afraid I will get over him. That’s the point. I’m afraid to move past him because I love him, and right now I miss what he brought to my life. And I’m afraid that if he gives me six months, I’ll be over him completely and won’t want to be with him at all – right at the time he comes back. Why is that so bad? Because, as I said, I know I love him, and I know I’m willing to work things out with him – though I’m told I’m a fool for feeling so – and I know that my life would be a lot better, a lot easier, with him in it. I don’t want to be a single mother of three children. I don’t want to have to “find” another partner.
But eventually I’ll get used to it. And I will have built up so much resentment toward H that I’ll never have him back, regardless of how much better he made my life. I’ll get to the point where I’ll kinda cut my nose off to spite my own face. That’s what I’m afraid of.
If H wants me back, he needs to come crawling back pretty soon. There’s only a miniscule window of opportunity for him. He’s already missed one. He royally f**ked it up, actually. Once the baby’s born, I’m going to be so resentful of him that I likely won’t want him back … unless he catches me in the first six weeks postpartum as ex-H did. Hormones, and not logic, rule in those six weeks.
I don’t even want to think of having the power to dictate what's going to happen in my R. H has to come back first, and I don’t see that happening.
We’re kinda back to square one. H apparently stopped by today at lunch to put the telephone bill in the back door. Ugh. Does this seem familiar? His broken-down car is here. I’m sure he’ll be here in the days ahead. Could he not have brought the bill then? Maybe he was hoping to catch me here at lunch; I was here the other day when he stopped by at lunchtime. I guess I can say with certainty that he wasn't banging OW today. At least him dropping off the bill tells me that much. They didn’t spare a d*mn minute of his lunch hour the other day…
Oh, and don't talk to ME about giving up chances to get laid BTW. What's it been - a week?
Oh, I’m not talking about giving up chances. I’m talking about getting laid, period. That’s not going to happen with a complete stranger right now. Not many guys, I would think, would want to be intimate enough with my unborn child to get *that* close.
of course, but he'd always come back. I'm not playing that game this time.
, I should've never walked in the house to begin with, when I knew in my gut what was going on. And I guess I shouldn't have immediately acted on this thought: "That bastard! Maybe he left me for her, instead of all this garbage he's been throwing at me, blaming *me* for everything, since day one." When I thought that, I decided to snoop so I could have the legal angle I needed to blow his sorry a$$ outta the water. I was getting ready to accept blame for his leaving. I actually bought into his sh!t!
