Not meaning to harp here...but I've heard what you said about restraining orders, and not having protection on a 24-7 basis...time and time again. It's one of the leading reasons women stay in situations such as yours. It's those dangerous "what if's"....the unknown. I also understand you not wanting to spoil the holidays for the kids.
I'm also not telling you WHAT to do, that's your call of course. It's just my opinion and suggestions to go along with things I've done/experienced that are similar to your sitch.
I guess that for me, I don't see your H's behavior changing because there's really no reason for it to. You are doing an admirable job at not taking his crap and diffusing many situations.....but you and I both know how exhausting that is and what a toll it takes on you.
I'm as concerned for your kids as I am for you. You mentioning your H yelling at your child reminded me of my own dad yelling at me. At one point when I was young my father was at the minimum on the verge of being abusive with me. He had a highly stressful job and I was the 1st person he'd see almost everyday....if things weren't just "so" when he'd get home, I'd catch it from him.....and LOUDLY! Now this was well over 20 years ago, and my father and I have a very good R now....but I still cringe (at least on the inside) when I hear a man yell for any reason. Because of that brief (approx 1 year) time in my life....I still carry with me that reaction, and the feeling when I react that way that I've done something wrong...but I don't know what it is.
Now my Mom was very loving towards me, very encouraging, always tried to smooth things over....and acted as the buffer many times on my behalf when I truly didn't deserve what he was dishing out......but I still carry those internal scars with me.
Also....I read what you said about going head-to-head with him with the kids out of the house, how wise do you think that would be? You are talking about a man who you have admitted you are afraid would get physical with you. If you feel you need to take him on...do it legally, do it logically....don't do it from an emotional place. Think it through.
Take care and I DO hope you and your kids have a great Christmas!!
My mind frame these last few days has been dangerous to me since I was reacting from emotion. I'm guilty as charged as well. Too emotional. I do hope you can make the holidays happy for you and the kids.
Before I go and take care of my well being. I just read through your thread. I need to make some observations:
1. As you know, your H is a drama queen. His melodramatics and histrionics are his way of attempting to control you and your household.
2. Yes, as BF noted, you ARE in control. Might not feel like it. You are. You are controlling him. How? Passivity/detachment. Control doesn't always come in active forms. Passive control is just as effective. He is trying to up the anty to wrestle it back from you...which gets into #3:
3. This escalation from him scares me. The gun drama. To me, this signifies the ceiling of his escalation/control attempts. There is nowhere to go from here without a nightmare scenario coming to pass sooner or later. You are both going in opposite directions. Do you see? Your further detaching/pulling away is escalating his need for more active-based control. "I'll get my gun. I'll make her pay attention to me. Desperate man IMO. Do you see? Your passivity is controlling him and he hates it.
4. This man hates himself. Period. Why does he? Only he can face that monster. No C can touch it b/c he's unreceptive. Defensive. Him against the world. His anger is prime proof that he really, really hates himself for something, whether current or FOO. Threatening self-destruction, even if in histrionic fit, is apex of self-hatred. Period.
5. He may either be exhibiting bipolor disorder (oscillation b/w rage and suddenly chatty convos) or there is something seriously wrong with his testosterone levels; ie, cravings for sex, anger explosions etc. Maybe he could get those levels checked though don't even have the first clue how to get him to voluntarily do that.
6. Right now. STOP the "don't" talk. He's irrationally defensive. Charge neutral. Not "Do not yell at me." etc. in your firm/angry tone. Instead, "Do you realize you are raising your voice to me? in calm, even tone. "This situation does not warrant yelling to each other." (including yourself in this defuses his feeling of being attacked. Yes, you aren't yelling but he's too far in his head rage that he doesn't notice.
7. This one enrages me. He is not to tell you to "Shut the F[expletive deleted] up." In any circumstance. Ever. I have never, ever said this to any F and never will. This is disrespectful. The fact that he prob. would not do that with others at the table shows he knows it is improper behavior. If I were eating at your table and he said this, don't care how well I knew either of you, I would put a stop to this. "Excuse me. This is a lady. This is your W. You will not speak to her like that. Show some respect." Your response should be same. Low even calm tone. "I am a woman. I am your W, whether that means anything to you or not. I will not be spoken to like this. I will not be disrespected."
8. You have zero EC b/c you do not respect this man. My god, who would even want to have sex with someone acting like this? You can convince yourself placating his needs is helping, it's not. Band Aid on a compound fracture. And the resentment grows. (damned that word).
9. You are in survival mode, yes. Not living. Feeling like a jailbreak will cause you and your kids certain death via being riddled in the back with bullets from the prison guard tower as you are fleeing is a fear-based R and unsustainable in its current configuration. Eggshell walking will cause ulcers. Will cause stomach cancer. Will cause no well being. Will cause eventual Armageddon scenario. Yes. Correct. You, GEL et al. Restraining orders blahblahblah are useless and only antagonize. In his mind he does not deserve such treatment. Escalation.
10. It seems to me you are too hardened to cry and I totally understand why. You can force yourself to break down in front of him but this manipulation may not be believed by him if not pulled off flawlessly. Wanna know why you can't cry in response to his actions? Goes back to respect. You do not respect him. If he were a noble, compassionate, loving man who treated you with high respect and were to suddenly shout you down or tell you to go "Shut the F[ex. deleted] Up" I guarantee you would be reduced to real, vulnarable, heartbroken tears.
Hence the conundrum. He needs to see those real tears. Only way to really see what he is doing to you and make him feel like total sh*t. If you stay in this R he must feed/fuel/foster your respect for him. Only way or else you're wasting your life. Only way for your tears to come involuntarily. Right now he's hurting you emotionally etc. and you don't care. Only care for children.
Your path to well being and healthy R will only begin when you start caring about how he feels about you. This is respect. When someone we respect really hurts us we cry. I respected my x as if on pedestal. She cheated. I cried. I do not cry over very many things in life.
...arg, this is way longer than I anticipated...
Solutions:
1. I would consider doing this. This man has not a clue as to how he comes across he is so clouded in his mind. You must understand he does not realize the levels of his verbal abuse. So. I would get a tape recorder. I would say/show I am using it for some specific purpose or other. When he starts on one of his irrational tirades I would hit the record button and leave it on till the tape runs out.
Then. The next time you have a chance when things are calm and he is in a placid state of mind I would put the tape on the table with a note. "I accidentally left the tape player on the other day when I was working on such and such. I want you to listen to this."
And you must be out of the house during this. The "accidentally leaving it on" part is to thwart him from rage feelings that this is a set up (which it is, frankly). He needs time alone to listen to it. I'm pretty sure his curiosity will force him to listen. Only when you hear your own voice/tone/delivery do you truly realize something like a terrible lightning strike. The voice on tape does not match voice in head. Who is this monster? Who is this tyrant? Best person to shame self is self.
2. And now finally, yes, finally. The dog. I just have gone through this. I am animal lover. Do not allow him or self to yell at puppy at such developmental age. The puppy doesn't know any better and is vulnarable and confused. Yes, chaining him outside does nothing.
He is making messes b/c he has too much freedom. No boundaries (see? Dogs can have them too...smirk) Sounds harsh but not. You must confine him to either crate or box for most of the day if you have to. It is not cruel. He may whine etc. but he is a child trying to get his way. Freedom must be earned. He will try not to mess in his crate/box b/c he's smart and that is unpleasant.
So. Keep him in there with his toys etc. Depending on his size/breed (toy dogs have smaller bladders) you must take him directly from crate every hour or so outside. If he goes, lots of praise; then right back to crate/box. If he doesn't go, same thing.
It works. Eventually he will associate relieving himself with going outside. The more he is able to control himself the more freedom you allow him. If he works up to a whole room and messes the floor he has not earned that wide of freedom. Reduce space.
If playing/romping a puppy will have to pee in only 15 minutes to half hour. If sedate, can hold it for maybe 3 hours depending on age. Every hour or 2 is good median.
Argh. Enough from Dr. Doolittle. Have to work on self. Think about things Corri said. May go on hiatus again to GAL. Giving thoughts to others much better than talk about self. Giving me much needed break from me.
-Stigmata-
The difference between a warrior and an ordinary man is the warrior views everything as a challenge; the ordinary man views everything as either a blessing or a curse.
-Yaqui shaman Don Juan-
...and that holds 2x true for nice guy wussies, DJ
Chrissy, my reply to you had nothing to do with my late hour. it was a needed distraction.
now the whole tone of your post was, to me, resistant to wanting to give up your control as you see it, your power and try something else that would enable you to set boundaries, and at the same time quiet his beast.
You are drawn to men with this inner animal. I get why, but since you are, your puzzle in my opinion is to learn how to change you to calm them, without losing yourself.
Your anger is a feeling from denying your hurt feelings, having your emotionality trampled.
I could really play this out.
Your angry, this is understandable, but not what I meant, or a solution.
Actually I look at it as those who would not put up with this as being smarter then me. Which puts me in the end of the scale of stupid
And I am stupid for sticking my wife in with another Man. More on this. but we are not stupid, you are being stubborn. you wnat it your way.
I want you to ponder this.
Quote: An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I was an infidel. You are being a infidel.
Which is his biggest want in life. To control me.
Other issues aside, I think he wants you to need him. You dont in any shape or fashion, so you show him every chance you get. Though it be not truly honest.
Would you like a six pack with that bag of chips? Thanks, got a 8 pack already, dont eat chips or anything else with hydrogenated oils. How about a half&half protein shake?
I cannot email you. understood, and thanks for the protection.
some stuff from Stig.
His melodramatics and histrionics are his way of attempting to control you and your household.
He is balancing out your unemotional expressionlessness.
There is more, but I am going to sum up, and take a big chance like I did with Cobra.
Your H loves you. I use the term loosely. He needs you, you are the air he breaths, the sun he grows towards. He is nothing without you. He is so dependant on you, it wrecks him. It is not healthy, it is not balanced, it is not blah blah blah.
YOU have all the power. Untill he takes it with force and anger. Can you tame this animal? You know how to make men dance in many ways. Can you change your perspective, and your life learned techniques--yourself even, enough to help your H .
You have got to stop going toe to toe with this guy. I agree, this man doesn't like himself much, but the very last thing he wants you to do is leave him. Yet... to prove to himself that is he indeed unlovable, he is committing every behavior there is to push you out the door.
You continue to engage and engage and engage the power play. It is not your responsibility, contrary to other's advice... to correct his behavior. But it is your responsibility to not add fuel to the flames.
Whatever it is you are doing with this man is NOT working. STOP IT. First order of businsss is to establish a truce... a cease fire. This is not 'peace,' but it gives everyone some serious room to calm down and breathe. Regroup.
Focus on that for now. With everything else you've got going on in your life, I'd say that's enough for now. Control yourself and your retorts, your tone of voice, the eyerolls, the heavy sighs. DO NOT ENGAGE.
I will come back and answer/respond as soon as I get the chance.
BF
now the whole tone of your post was, to me, resistant to wanting to give up your control as you see it, your power and try something else that would enable you to set boundaries, and at the same time quiet his beast.
By no means did I mean to sound this way. I take alot of what is said to me to heart and at least attempt to try it. Just today I did the How would you react of some other man told me to shut the [censored] up suggestion. As I stated I was in a bad place mentally to emotional pissed off to be logical. I have gotten myself to a better mind set over the last few days.
Again I will come back to all of this when I have the time
Wishing you all a happy holiday!
By the way BF what are you doing for the holidays. I hope you do have some plans
Well made it through Christmas and my lil Sisters visit. Now as I stated I have come back to respond to a few post I did not have time or good mind frame for the other day.
Stigmata,
Love that name it is one of my favorite movies!
As you know, your H is a drama queen. His melodramatics and histrionics are his way of attempting to control you and your household.
I so agree with this. And his droma is losing effect which is making him look for new forms of control. I am still confronting his drama with straight pure do not yell at me do not cuss at me. And the kids have even started adapting this instead of the ignore it concept we have been using for the last year. With the exception of S13 none of us are allowing him to bait us into a argument as often with his drama.
This escalation from him scares me. The gun drama. To me, this signifies the ceiling of his escalation/control attempts
I only see this as more of his drama. He has done stupid stuff like this everytime I have tried to leave. That is the only time. And since the day I told him that next time I will load the gun for him which was calling his bluff and letting him know I was done with letting him manipulate me with false threats to himself. He has not even hinted to this. It has been a year.
His anger is prime proof that he really, really hates himself for something, whether current or FOO.
I agree. I feel part of it is his FOO. His mom favored his brother when they were younger. Which spawned a love hate relationship between them. Most of the others in the family Aunts Uncles so forth all favored H. But I think he was blind to it. Oddly as adults she favors my H and my kids over said brother and his kids. Again I do not think H sees it. He cannot let go or does not even try to work past the past.
But on the flip of that. My H has a inflated self ego also. To listen to him he could have been a professional baseball player football player and wrestler. He was the best at all these things. And he truely believes this. But when asked then why he is not he just gets angry and has no answer. His parents neither of them remember him wrestling in H.S. Let alone being awesome at it. And remember him being more intersted in wearing uniforms to impress girls then being awesome at the sports. But in his mind he has a true belief he was the best. Sorta wierd.
He may either be exhibiting bipolor disorder (oscillation b/w rage and suddenly chatty convos) or there is something seriously wrong with his testosterone levels
You are the second person to mention Bi Polar disorder. Maybe I should look further into this. His testosterone levels were checked about a year and a half ago. And were within the normal range. But I have often wondered(and yes here I may sound stupid), We had sex about one or two hours prior to his test would that have effected the test results?.
but he's too far in his head rage that he doesn't notice.
Oddly he does not appear in a rage a lot of the time.
And again oddly D19 had to defend S13 this week on a day I went shopping with my sis and left the boys with there dad. D19 made a comment simular to something I did a few weeks ago. That H truely seems unaware of what he is saying after he says it. When she addressed what he had said to S13 and his cussing and threats H denied ever saying it. And would be cussing her and treatening her and when she would say do not cuss at me or yell at me he would say he was not. The same thing he does when I address this. Odd.
Your response should be same. Low even calm tone. "I am a woman. I am your W, whether that means anything to you or not. I will not be spoken to like this. I will not be disrespected."
I did approach this in effect the other day. I asked him as someone suggested. If another man was to tell me this what his response would be. He asked what I meant I said would it make you made that someone else was talking to me like this. He was quite. I said well I know you and know it would so why is it okay for you my H to speak to me like this. H said because sometimes he just gets tired of my mouth. I said oh if I don't agree with you on something and suggest something or share my opinion like the other day when I suggested your approach with chaining the dog out was not going to work that gives you the right. He said nothing else.
You have zero EC b/c you do not respect this man
I own this. I have repeatedly admitted such here that I do not respect my H. There are things about him I respect. But as a whole I do not have much respect for him in our personal relationship. My H seems to have little respect for anyone.
And the resentment grows.
I really do not dwell in resentment land all that much these days. I feel sorry for my H. And I own that I have not been the best wife. I have made terrible mistakes in this relationship and done my share of doing him wrong from day one. And I have even used his behavior as justifacation of my own in the past. Which was a load of crap. It was easier to say that I worked 15 hours a day so I did not have to deal with him then to say by trying to avoid him I failed my children by not being home for them at times that they needed me. I own all of it and cannot change it. I need to find a balance and get over the fear that if I go to work again full time I will not repeat this mistake. But as of yet I am not confident that it will not become a easy out without realizing it. It took me years to see it the first time. Anyhoo back to respect no that is not something other of us seem to have for the other.
Restraining orders blahblahblah are useless and only antagonize. In his mind he does not deserve such treatment. Escalation.
This is so on the spot. My H blames the cop that came and got me and D19 out of here last year. He now shows him total disrespect and contempt. He has shifted blame of his behavior to being this cop had no business coming into his home blah blah. It is now the cops fault for interferring not his for making someone feel threatened enough to call the cops.
So. I would get a tape recorder. I would say/show I am using it for some specific purpose or other
I actually did this years ago. H and D would fight while I was at work and would both have different stories not takes stories of what happened. I have a voice activated tape recorder. Not that I have used it in ages for this. Maybe I should give it another go.
The dog.
Yes I know about crate training. He was to big for the little dogs crate and we know have a larger one. I have crate trained several dogs. But and just let me say this is a big but!!!! This is one of the most stupid dogs I have ever ran across.
You can leash walk him. You can let him free run. You can put him out for 10 minutes or a hour. He can keep him in his crate for 15 hours out of the day and he will not go the bathroom outside. But as soon as he comes in the house he goes I mean as soon as.
Oh on a funnier note. H spent two days getting the nieghbors Kitten out of a tree. Called the fire department and animal control the whole deal. The neighbors did not seem concerned there kitten was 40 feet up and had been for two days.
now the whole tone of your post was, to me, resistant to wanting to give up your control as you see it, your power and try something else that would enable you to set boundaries, and at the same time quiet his beast.
Again I state that was not my intent to seem resistant. Just at a stage I was feed up with his beast and taking a rolling pin to it seemed it would be a more satisfying and quicker way to quite it then putting in more effort to be something I am not by nature.
You are drawn to men with this inner animal. I get why
Please share this insight. I for the life of me don't understand why I could not just get involved with a normal every day type of guy.
Your angry, this is understandable, but not what I meant, or a solution.
Yeah I was being sarcastic about being so false to my own nature. My anger may have stemmed from hurt at his behavior and I was angry to act other wise would be a lie. So opted for the just do not respond method. Other then here on the board I did not respond angry or other wise. This place is a great place to come and say what you know you cannot or should not say. Just to let it out is a help.
I want you to ponder this.
Not only did I ponder I looked up the meaning of the word. I saw cheater in that word. And you were not so it did not make sense.
I am going with the part of the definition
One who doubts or rejects a particular doctrine, system, or principle.
Since the rest refers to being of no religion or belief in religion and that does not apply.
So basically what you are saying is because I am a non conformist I am hurting myself? Cannot see the forest through the trees or look beyond myself? And feel my own beliefs entitle me? Gonna keep pondering that along with my other secret. Dam you say woman speak in code.
Other issues aside, I think he wants you to need him. You dont in any shape or fashion, so you show him every chance you get. Though it be not truly honest.
My H rises to the occassion to fill physical needs that I have of him. ie Removing the tree from the yard. Though it takes him a long while to respond to those needs. My H never and I mean never has rose to the occassion to fill my emotional needs. Any time I have left the door open to allow him to walk in and do this. It leaves me feeling dissapointed and resentful towards him. I recently left that door ajar again and as always he succeded in making me want to slam it shut in his face (I posted about this to Cemars offense). Do I have these needs sure but since he is incapable of fufilling them why keep putting myself in a place to be let down over and over again by him. And making me more and more angry/disappointed/distant from/at him. Seems senseless to me. Then not only do I have to deal with what ever the need was myself I also have to deal with the feelings it arises in me towards him. I rather just deal with one thing then two on my own.
How about a half&half protein shake?
One word Yuck!!!! Remind me to never go out to eat with you. Do you eat normal food like pizza and nacho's?
Oh and heres a question does crab have calories? Or is it just the butter you dip it in that has all the calories. My Lil Sis and me where just talking about that and neither of us knew the answer.
understood, and thanks for the protection.
Ahh that is my duty in life to serve and protect.
Your H loves you. I use the term loosely. He needs you, you are the air he breaths, the sun he grows towards. He is nothing without you. He is so dependant on you, it wrecks him. It is not healthy, it is not balanced, it is not blah blah blah.
Yes and this is a burden that is to much for another to bare. I do not want to be all these things to him. I did not ask to be. When we were going to the MC this was the focus of most of our conversations. H believes this is love this is marriage and so forth and would not budge on this. H cannot understand how this is so draining and life sucking. This is what he feels he is entitled to from me also. For him to be my world.
YOU have all the power. Untill he takes it with force and anger. Can you tame this animal? You know how to make men dance in many ways. Can you change your perspective, and your life learned techniques--yourself even, enough to help your H .
Yes and no. I have given up so many parts of myself to try to qualsh is fears and make life livable that I have little of who I was left to the point I no longer know myself most days or like who I have become to try to meet his needs. And it would be easy to say hay why not give up what little of myself I have left what does it matter at this point. I have already compromised myself out of a majority of who I am all in want to make him happy and livable with. But I have gotten what? So if I give up what little beliefs and needs I have left and it still is not enough to satisfy him. I get what then?
My H does not like the hollow shell I have become but he also did not like the lively person I use to be obviously since he felt a need to control and manipulate and threaten me to the point I was no longer allowed to be that person.
Does he have enough value to you to try?
The jury is out on that one at the moment.
And they seem to have a hung verdict of does he have enough value to me to try or do I have enough value to me to say enough is enough.
