Quote: Do I fear for my saftey not alot on a daily basis. That would change if I tried to leave. That is the only time I fear for my childrens physical saftey also. Well when it comes to my H lol.
Chrissy, you've written about your H's violent tendencies before and every time you do, I'm alarmed. That "lol" seemed really inappropriate to me. What was the exact meaning of that laugh?
That "lol" seemed really inappropriate to me. What was the exact meaning of that laugh?
Oh they skate board,wrestle,play football rollar blade, Eldest boy now wants to go snow boarding. Broken bones and stiches are the norm around here. Oldest boy had both his arms broken at once doing tricks of a bounce house. Has fallen out of tree houses broke his arm. His one arm is swelled right now from wrestling.
So no matter what they do I seem to be in fear for there physical saftey alot. But not because of anyone.
Your posts about the tone in your HH and how it changes when H shows up reminds me of my first M. It is a sad and painful way to live. It eats away at you until you aren't "you" anymore. I was LD in that M. The once in a great while that I actually wanted sex, I wanted sex - it had nothing to do with my H and even less to do with EC. I don't wonder why you stay. I had my reasons too. I became ready to leave when I realized that I had become a little, tiny, fragment of myself and I couldn't even connect to who I really was or wanted to be anymore. Where are you in this? Can you be in this M and still be you? Are you sure?
I'm very concerned for you. I don't write much to you but I follow what is happening.
Quote: Oddly CeMar's post remind me of my H. No matter what is going on it revolves around the yeah but what about sex.
Don't lump me in with your husband. Sure, I think about sex all the time, how can I not, I only have sex maybe 8 times a year!!! Preety darn hard to NOT think about it under these conditions. But I know when loving behavior is needed versus sexual behavior when it comes to a women. This is not to say that loving behavior and sexual behavior can not be the same, they ofen are. But their are definitely times to distinguish between the two.
However, I did not know all the problems that both you and your husband have. I think that he is dangerous to you, the kids, and even himself. Either he gets himself straightened out or you need to consider the welfare of the children first and remove him from the family. As for yourself, I think you need some counselling to dispel the deamons of your past. You grew up in a dysfuntional setting where there was little love. The result of this is often children will learn to avoid dissappointment in life by essentially losing the ability to want. Wanting makes a person vulnerable, and children in dysfuntional families learn to neve make themselves vulnerable, they become self sufficient and do not want to place much trust in others for their own happiness. There is a whole chapter in Passionate Marriage just about this, titled "Who wants to want". These things describe my wife perfectly, but because she has made herself self sufficient and is a strong women, she sees herself as normal and does not need counselling, however, she has no ability to want.
Am I able to be myself in this relationship no. On I believe my first thread I talk in great length of the depression and all the down falls of this realization. I had posted a whole list of goals for the Resurrection of Chrissy. I was posting them at the begining of every thread but I guess I have failed to do that on the last few.
I appreciate the concern. I guess I need to state that I do not live in daily fear of my own or my childrens physical saftey. The issues that cause explosions in my house hold are explosions of verbal abuse accusations and veiled threats and screaming eposides. The only time I am in real physical danger is when I try to make a run for it (jail break). As long as I remain here there is no real physical fear just threats.
Until last year I never feared my H would hurt my kids. And sanely he would not. But last year he lost his power of threat of killing himself that had held me for so many years. When he put a gun in his mouth I said give me 5 minutes to get the kids out of here then go ahead and do it. S14 was the one who spazed and begged and so forth.
When the cops finally showed up and gave me the gun to unload and I saw there was no bullets. Yeah it took all that power away from him. And he knows he lost his means of controlling me.
So without that power is where my new fear arose from. The way he goes insane when I have tried to leave I am afraid he will loose all reason since he no longer holds his trumph card. If I ever try to leave if it will be the push into total blind insanity. When he is worked up I do believe he has the capablity to really hurt me and if the kids be in the wrong place them also. I also fear that his rage towards me leaving would brew until not only was I to pay for leaving him the kids if they choose to come with me would be become a source of anger and would need to pay for deserting him also.
CeMar I have no doubt you are nothing like the persona you have on this board. I have no doubt there is much more to you then what you present on the board. The part of your post that remind me of my H is simply put. Everytime you post it is about sex how to get it what about it. People have tried to engage you in conversation to help identify and address other aspects of your relationship you simply do not follow up. Which gives the impression that you either only think about sex or you think every thing else will become perfect if your wife would just have sex with you. My H will only address sexual issues. If the problem is not sex lets not bother to talk about it. That is what is simular to your post and his attitudes.
Now is that how you really are? I dont think any of us can truthfully say yes or no. You will not help any of us get a clear vision of how much effort you put into fixing your relationship. What you have done and what your daily life is like with your wife. We all just know she does not want to have sex,
As for the not having sex but maybe 8 times a year. I feel terrible for you. Heck I feel terrible for HD,Choc,Chrome and the list goes on. Even as a LD I can not imagine not trying to at least make sure I had sex with my spouse once a week. If for no other reason then to make them less miserable. My H gets major crabby even with once a week. Cannot imagine what it would be like if I had not always at least been willing to do that.
How come IHJ gets to be clever, but I am sneaky? HMMMM?
<BF pouting>
Oh yeah I was reviewing/catching up on threads and found a third instance of you calling me a boy--- but it was in conjuntion with the word naughty, so thats ok.
Before I go further, I want to say you have a toughie. Your H is a PITA. I am not for you staying, and I am not for you going. Thats for you. Since you are still there currently I will work with that. If you change your mind and decide to leave, people will be here to support you with that, also.
Well so six months and not alot of improvement. Don't know if I am expecting to much to soon or what. I did find fixing the sex has not had much effect in the relationship
Ok So six months and how much improvement has there been in you? Lets stay focused on the good for a minute here, and the things you can control. (I know, I know --you can control more then just you, you think...) It seems to me that there has been a lot of improvement for and with yourself.
Nice job.
And you didnt think the sex would really fix the R anyways did you? So there is something else/some other 'problem'-- puzzle that life has tossed at you to figure out. Its not sex and or choosing/finding men that want you sexually.
I have another question, Do you like depositions? I hate em. Too many leading questions, always trying to frame control me. LOL. J/K I actually find them quite fun especially when the opposing Lawyer is a hot female. Fun, fun. How much can I frustrate her and how many sexual innuendos can I get in there. I should take them seriously, but its just civil and the outcome has no effect on me, so....
Ok seriously my question.
Do you find yourself in a situation that requires you to be in survival mode as IHF so CLEVERLY pointed out. (damnit I am so jealous of her now.) Or are you stuck, placing yourself in this mode from past experiences. Your not wanting/needing anything is in fact a need, but its based in fear. Fear of disappointment, maybe. Getting pissy when you are not deciphered, especially when you are practiced in the arts of undicpherableness, is not fair. Or reasonable.
I know.
Where does your confidance stem from?
How else could you see this?
What if you were confidant that you could ask for and recive what you wanted instead?
I still think you have to much control. But thats not helpful or going to fix your sitch. Maybe you just need to learn where/how to use it to your benefit.
also, even though you and the eloquent mrs. nop have been down this road previously, You must identify and clearly state, admit to yourself what your greatest need(s) is/ are.
It seems obvious to a couple of us round about these here parts, It must be to you also, before YOU are able to make anymore progress with YOU.
I knew you werent a gaggle of college boys just here to cause mischief.
Nice post. I dont think I came from a dysfunctional family- though it has become one - but my step dad was absolutely brillant at coming up with ways of telling me-- If I did such (chores, grades, competitions, etc.) then I would recieve such (rewards). I would, and become terrifically excited, in anticipation as young boys (kids) do and then he would renig. Always? ... <thinking- ouch ouch it hurts -the thinking that is>..... Yep pretty much. In retrospect it was probably his asserting himself over me. Why this is neccessary for a man over a 5-13 yo I dont know. at 14 I stopped allowing it. we were in a verbal argument and he threw me through a sliding glass door. I got up walked up to him, looked down, and said 'if you ever put your hands on me again, we are gonna fight.' although I was 14,because of my size and 5 years of aikido, we were both pretty certain where that would go.
certain personality types lean this way of wanting to be self sufficient, not needing or -bothering- others already and reinforcing development cements it. Im curious if Mrs. Nop's sisters are like this also, or if Chrissys sister(s) are? If I remember correctly Chrissy's sister chose to fight fight fight with her step dad. Her personality lead her a different direction.
I dont want, need ANYTHING/ Anybody for sure.( except my high speed internet connection and the associated personnel of troglodytes to maintain the network. ) Food, water, shelter, and I can go find, procure, and make it myself if it went that far.
SO's know when you dont let them in, and it is actually hurtful, and insecurity causing in them, as well as being untruthful and hurtful to the one denying themself of humanity. Being half of a sexual equation and tribal/social creatures.
Part of my 'going after' my x before reconcil was letting her in (verbally- 'I am hurt and angry', but not displaying it.) , letting her 'help me' ( 'get me a plate of food, please.' < this is significantly different then saying-- Would you please get me a plate of food. >-- 'Im setting up a bouncer for Nephew bday, give me a hand.' <we are doing something together- a team> )
Its not needy , and they could say no, but it will neither affect the outcome or be a rejection of you if they do. In fact saying no just reinforces the obviousness of their selfishness, their choosing to not be kind in the slightest manner.
Making strong statements, telling, ordering, commanding, whichever word is palatable to you, is very powerful, and attractive to women. (Cobra you may wish to differ, but its ALL in the delivery.)
Well Cemar you have gotten me to talk to you about this further, without disclosing anything about yourself. Soon youll be chuckling and making me dance like Pinnochio.
Seriously I relate the above for Lou specifically, and HD. I want to get over to your threads asap and spell somemore stuff out.
Oh yeah I was reviewing/catching up on threads and found a third instance of you calling me a boy
Must have been in a drug induced state. Habit boy girl blah blah. I will try harder to not refer to you as such. Well unless it is in reference to you being naughty!
So six months and how much improvement has there been in you
It seems to come in fist and starts. But over all I am calmer. Which to me is something.
I know, I know --you can control more then just you, you think
I really do not think I can control more then just me as in people. But I do seem to take control of situations quite easily. I have been resentful in the past that all the responsiblity of finances and decisions and so fourth tend to fall on my shoulders. But I have come to the understanding and am learning to except the fact that the reason for this is simply I end up taking control of these things because I fear no one else will and sometimes to try to control the outcome. Which goes against the logic of my feelings of it being dumped on my shoulders. And to be resentful of others after I choose to handle something is unfair. If I don't want to do it I should just not. And if it does not get done well then.
And you didnt think the sex would really fix the R anyways did you?
Simply put no. I always knew that sex would just mask all the other problems. Which in a round about way the more sex we have the worse the real problems get because they tend to be swept under the rug. Having a great sex life and having a great relationship are two totally different things. A person can have a good sex life with someone they never see for more then two hours a day. And don't even know the last name of. But to have a great relationship you need to know and care about all aspects of each other.
Do you like depositions
Odd question but since you asked. I have not been involved in many. But they seem like a fun game of who can out smart who. And how to answer a question without a whole answer. So I would probably enjoy them greatly if I was exposed to them often.
Or are you stuck, placing yourself in this mode from past experiences.
This is the question of the year!
Wondering if I have been stuck in this mode so long that it has become my only way of response and normal for me. If I remain in this mode at all times even when there is no need to be. It makes since when you take in to consideration how detatched I am. I have also been thinking/wondering about my kids. You all here me say except my kids alot. And a thought that has came to me. At the time I was detatching and learning conditioned responses to people or learning survival mode. Motherhood was not even thought of. So my responses to personality types, males, females and situations did not include this aspect of life. So I was capable of forming more normal functioning emotions towards my children. Well actually children in general also. Through the years as they have grown some of the more normal ( for me )controlled emotions have filtered into the mix but in the end my more maternal instincts over ride these. Which the two conflicting ways of responding as my kids grow into there own personality's makes sense in the essence that alot of times I get confused as to how to respond to them and seem to flip flop back in forth from the loving mother emotions to the stand back cut off emotions.
All that said and the answer to your question is a big I dunno! But I am trying to sort through it and figure it out.
I will come back and answer the rest of your questions later tonight. I have a room full of presents calling my name! And kids on the prowl.
Okay the rest of those questions/comments here we go.
Your not wanting/needing anything is in fact a need, but its based in fear. Fear of disappointment, maybe
Actually I have been thinking that this pattern of not needing or wanting may have started out as a form of conflict avoidence.
In my early years when we were the poorest. I never really knew I did without. Because emotionally I was feed very well by my mother and sister and a network of people around us. Around age 9 that dynamic changed drastically. Along with the maturing and actually forming of self interest and so forth. Well since most expressed wants were met with various forms of conflict even if not directly aimed at me. I no longer expressed my wants on a regular basis. It was not worth the hassle of watching my mother have to fight to get to allow or take us to a friends house to spend the night. Because I would spend most of the night feeling bad for my mother. To me that sounds like conflict avoidence. When I went through my defiant stage it involved running away. Also can be deemed conflict avoidance for the fact in essense for once I did not have to see the conflict my actions brought on. I did not have to experience the forhand effects and then dwell on them.
But your fear of disappointment does role in to the later years of my life. Truth be told. I have never had my emotional needs meet by a man. Not my father not my step father nor either of my husbands. All emotional needs have been natured in me by females throughout my life. I have many males interested in me but it seems there intrest lies mainly in what is between my legs not heart. Which I think brings on my now noticable inablility/unwillingness to relay on the male gender for much of anything on a personal level. In there here and now the few times I try to reach out in need on a emotional level my H never fails to reinforce that image I have of males and there what they are only interest in.
Where does your confidance stem from?
Alot of it is work based. I have went into alot of jobs knowing jack about them and have done exceedingly well in them in short periods of time.
Some of it comes from the fact that I am the person that my family relys on to be the rock and to help them with there problems. Example. Something is going on with my little sister. My older sister and my mom both live in the same state as her.My mom is very aware something is going on but my sister will not let her in. But she is flying her the day after Christmas to be with me. Why I am who she comes to when she is emotionally in need and does not want solutions just a ear and some logical thoughts. Everyone thinks it is something big. I am betting on it actually being just lifes let down. She is 25 got out of college got her dream job got married to boyfriend she was with for 10 years and has already bought her dream house. And has done major traveling . Now she is dissatisfied with everything and nothing is good enough. Down side when you achieve all your big dreams early in life it leaves the rest appear to be a let down. And I think that is all she is experiencing right now. But we will see maybe it is something else.
Also a part of my self confidence just comes from knowing I am a survivor. Alot of people say they do not know what they would do if there spouses were to die or there house caught on fire and they lost everything or if they were to loose there jobs. I don't think that way. I know I can start over no matter what. I know I can make it through it. It may not be a cake walk but hey what in life is. The only thing I don't know that I have the strength to make it through is the death of any or all of my children. That one haunts me. I dream terrible dreams about this. Which yes this is my greatest fear in life. And yes it is totally out of my control. Which scares me more. I would sell my soul to make sure nothing ever happens to them but I can't it. This is the big fear in my life. This is what would truely shatter me. My kids can get mad at me never talk to me again shut me out and though it would be a sad thing I could survive that also. Anything as long as they are alive and breathing.
But saving the best for last. I truely believe I am blessed. That God looks out for me I had the fairy tale beginging to life. I was the child who was born early because there mothers blood attacked them. Who was born almost dead. Who the nuns named and was baptised at birth because no one thought I would make it long enough for my mom to come consious. I was given a very relgious name. And a medal of Saint Jude was hung around my neck all within minutes of my birth. And here I am at 40 sitting typing this with medal firmly around my neck. My three names mean. One annointed by God. One appointed by God. And most beloved by God. And I truely have the belief that God is with me Good bad fail suceed it is all for a reason. This belief realistic or not is the greatest source of strenght for me which leads me to be very confident that I matter. I have a reason and a purpose. And that is self confidence nothing can touch.
What if you were confidant that you could ask for and recive what you wanted instead
Maybe that would lead me to a place where I no longer felt a need to be self reliant. Or maybe it is to late for me to ever break this pattern. But I do not believe that is a bridge I will ever get to cross in this relationship. And I have no real want to enter into another relationship even if this one fails. Maybe something in line of Lils. A boyfriend but still independent. Not 24/7.
I still think you have to much control. But thats not helpful or going to fix your sitch.
One day you will have to enlighten me to what lead you to this observation.
It was one of the most profound you have thrown my way. And I am still sorting through and coming to terms with the various different things the word control my encompass.
It seems obvious to a couple of us round about these here parts, It must be to you also, before YOU are able to make anymore progress with YOU.
Well it is not obvious to me. Maybe you could throw me a few of your cleverly cloaked implications. Or maybe it is and the price to pay is to high so I carefully avoid recognition. Not sure on that one.
Getting pissy when you are not deciphered, especially when you are practiced in the arts of undicpherableness, is not fair. Or reasonable.
You can decipher any thing it just requires a little effort. If you do not wish to put said effort into it. Then you really have no interest in finding out what meaning lies beneath the words or actions.
it was from before I busted you on it the first time. I just didnt take notice of it, cause it wasnt a test. I dont really care, but one time you used it to test me and I had no permissable (here) response to it. Grr. so I had to whip out the mom comment, when you did it again. You cheated so I cheated. fun, fun.
Do you like depositions
I was about to ask you a bunch of leading questions. I dont normally do that, or care for it, so I threw that in. I have been in only a couple way back when I was in security stuff. In one I actively flirted and tried to make all questions about me, my height weight , etc= look like she was trying to flirt with me. It was hilarious.
ok on to the real stuff.
But over all I am calmer. Which to me is something.
Good.
I want to offer some counter stuff to what you currently do. Its hard I have to work at it too.
It seems to me from way over here.. that you give and give and give, or at least thats how you feel. Which is all that counts. You are resilient, but you need to learn how to take. Kinda like OG does too.
You have to hold something back for yourself. more of the boundaries talk. Part of getting what you need is Asking for it.
GASP. <shudder> I know horrible. Reach out in little ways at first, ask others to do things for you- that you are perfectly capable of doing- and be ok with it. Your sis is coming to talk to you. Would you ever talk to her? Is R with her give and take?
I cant really give examples but Ill take a stab at it anyway. LOL.
ask your H for a neck or shoulder rub the next time he gropes at you. Calmly grasp his hand put it on your neck and Say 'I would really appreciate a neck rub instead. Lets save that for later itll be fun.'
When he tells you to shutup or curses at you, calmly say ' What would you do/think/say, if you saw another man speaking/treating me like that. Would you let him? It hurts my feelings when you do that.'
Hopefully I am not thinking to simplistically here.
The M/F dynamic is different on our respective sides, so maybe I am off here. Need to ponder. Maybe one of the many wiser then I females will chime in here.
I know I can start over no matter what. I know I can make it through it.
Nod. I actually put this in my post before modifying it to ask questions. Im glad-- I got a lot more then the obvious. anyways, This is good and a strength, but also a weekness. Do you see how this could make your H insecure? I thought/know this too. I took it too far with x.
Also it is slightly untrue. If you lost your house, you would lose alot. It would be very upsetting to your life and even if you dont react to it, or quash those feelings of loss as being irrational, it doesnt change the reality of them. Its just another stressor that gets put in the pot to boil until it spills over. Like your last depression, that seemingly came from nowhere.
I never for the life of me thought a) I could lose my x and b) that it would effect me the way it did, if she chose to stop loving me. I like to think MY need wouldnt usurp my rationality and I wouldnt be so overconfidant if I knew how my life would be upheaved and the emotional truama it caused me. Surviving is not Living, nor being prepared, and it doesnt allow for the higher aspects of living fully.
few of your cleverly cloaked implications.
Thanks for the clever but no. Thats your job. If you dont want to you dont want to.
But to have a great relationship you need to know and care about all aspects of each other. Have you ever said this to your H?
Or maybe it is to late for me to ever break this pattern. Its never to late to turn back on the wrong road taken.
You can decipher any thing it just requires a little effort. If you do not wish to put said effort into it.
YES. Absolutely. But effort needs motivation. And we are all motivated by different factors. Your H is not motivated to do this when cut off from sex, and when he gets sex his need is satisfied, he thinks all is right with the world. Many of the guys here find themselves in the inverse position of you. Motivating there wives to decifer, acknowledge, understand there need for sex. Your H's lack of effort to understand your need is no different then some of the LDW's.
Your gonna have to do the work. You have the skills, you have the knowledge, but its not an obvious yes or no type issue.
If you cant figure it out with your H, the man you have been with for 15? years and the F of your childeren, who are the love of your life, you most likely wont with the next. Your testing skills are to advanced. You will never be with a man who caves to your desires.
Then you really have no interest in finding out what meaning lies beneath the words or actions.
I know what you are saying, but Not true. Some get tired of 'the game',(men with being tested) some dont understand it exists, some dont like playing. People see differently, have different drives and motivators. If this were true then the Nops would not have had success, and I am not referring to simply sex. There success is far deeper.
ah yes, I wont bring it up again (havent ever actually before now) or press it, its not really relevant to anything IMO to go thru your stuff and work on your sitch, though it is related to your detachment and control, but you are making veiled references to your 'secret' again.
One last thought that just ran thru my head, Isnt it strange that a person can be accutely aware of exactly what their attraction mechanism is (most are not) and still be almost completely under its control, but only to be realized later, that when you thought you were not under its control, that you were making a logical choice, you still were?
How come IHJ gets to be clever, but I am sneaky? HMMMM? 
) Food, water, shelter, and I can go find, procure, and make it myself if it went that far. 
