I agree that there is a lot of hope for your sitch, and you made some important points in your own post above:
Quote: Basically it comes down to the fact that we held back a lot of our love for each other, or didn't let the other one in. It was pretty obvious we loved each other, and that we also were hurt.
You've had the love before and you can have it again. My H has been saying that he *never* loved me and that he can't love anyone. Your W is saying that she wants those feelings and had them once with *you*.
Quote: 'it wasn't really as much a relationship as it was an event, or a chance to live out a fantasy' and W agreed. Her tone of voice seemed to be saying that it is fading out.
She recognizes that it's a fantasy. Okay, she's still writing to him, but that doesn't mean that it's anything more than a dream or wish. And her dream isn't necessarily *him*--it's a loving R, and that could well be with *you*.
Quote: On the drive home we were totally emotionally lost. W says 'why didn't we do this work on ourselves a long time ago?' I said 'because I guess we weren't ready to'. "What does being loving, kind and nurturing look like in our current situation?". W says "I don't know".
She's confused and can see that had you both done this long ago, you wouldn't be where you are now. Even she can't deny that there is hope here.
You do have a chance, Frank, even a good one. I only wish I could be so positive for myself!
Nicola
Life isn't about finding yourself; it's about creating yourself My thread: Trusting God's Plan
From what I read in your posts, these things seem hopeful to me. 1. Your W is still living with you. 2. Your W is willing to attend C with you and girls 3. Your W appears to have some remorse for what is happening especially w the girls 4. Your W seems to have let her guard down a little with you (shower flashing, playful baking, etc) 5. If I get your story right, you had some major problems which contributed to your M problems. W endured and hung in there while you were messed up. You get yourself straightened out and then W says shes had enough. In my former life I was a WAW. Scenario was not unlike your sitch. When I had finally had enough, I walked. Nothing could have convinced me to stay. Your W is still there. I'm not sure she is ready to throw in the towel. I know every sitch is different. It's just my gut feeling that she's not totally sure. I hope I'm right. 6. My biggest reason is that YOU seem to have gotten it. You know you screwed up and you seem to be willing to do all the hard work to win your wife back. You also seem to have a good handle on this DB stuff. I'm sure you may backslide some. We all do. But overall, you seem to know how to keep your head and stay the course.
This reply was off the top of my head w/o rereading everything. If I see hopeful signs in future posts I will point them out.
Have a very Merry Christmas. Remember to "act as if" you will be enjoying many more together. Be loving and patient. Tell yourself "I can hold on. I can do this."
Hugs
Spitfire
Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest. Mark Twain
Quote: In my former life I was a WAW. Scenario was not unlike your sitch. When I had finally had enough, I walked. Nothing could have convinced me to stay. Your W is still there. I'm not sure she is ready to throw in the towel. I know every sitch is different. It's just my gut feeling that she's not totally sure. I hope I'm right.
I didn't know you were a WAW. That gives me even more respect for your opinion. I guess it's hard for me to believe she is not ready to 'throw in the towel' since she says she is 'in love' with OM. She writes and calls him 'my love' in her e-mails. It seems to me that she is 'getting along' with me for the kids sake and never expects to feel the 'depth' of love she says she is feeling for OM. I know that affairs and 'in love' are not real love and they end eventually but even if it does end, why would she want to try to fix things with me? And what if it doesn't end?
Can you elaborate on your feelings, is it intuition?
Did you do something similar with an OM?
I still don't get the throwing the plastic rose he gave her, and the mistletoe she had taped to her monitor 'to honor him' in the trash when she still is 'in love' with him and expresses it every chance she gets. I looked at that as something hopeful that the relationship is fading but it seems like it isn't. But why would a woman do that?
I think she is still living with me because she doesn't think she can make it on her own financially right now, and she has this belief that she can't leave the kids. Our counselor has convinced us to live together for up to a year to process our old negative feelings and allow the kids to be comfortable with our separation. W says that is important to her so we don't have negative feelings between us. I just don't know what to believe in but at least we will be physically around each other but I don't know if I can take OM for a year.
I guess I just want to know that this OM really is going to end and when!
Last nite the friends (hers) who we went to their party 2 weeks ago where W flitted from friend to friend telling them she was 'in love' and happy while I was miserable invited us to come by sunday for caroling. They had talked to W about it and wanted to make sure we would be comfortable together. When W mentioned this to me and said 'you were pretty miserable and I think they don't want you to be that way' I said "well what did you expect, you were telling everyone you were in love, and happy while I was there feeling like a jerk".
She said she was sorry and I laughed and left the room. A few minutes later she came to me and said she really was sorry. I asked her if the things she had been doing the past couple days, the playfulness and the kiss on the head for cleaning her car were just forced acts or is she really trying to have a better friendship with me and she said she was forcing it at first but is feeling more comfortable now.
And that's another thing. Some of the things she is doing could be called 'flirty'. I try not to take them any other way but they sure seem like it to me. Like this morning she said something funny to me and I stuck my face about a foot in front of hers an gave her a funny face look and she popped a piece of mini wheats cereal in my mouth. I mean, this stuff is all 'playful' and like I said, 'flirty'.
Yet she goes to OM for her love.
Spitfire, Did you do that stuff when you were WAW?
Quote:
My biggest reason is that YOU seem to have gotten it. You know you screwed up and you seem to be willing to do all the hard work to win your wife back. You also seem to have a good handle on this DB stuff. I'm sure you may backslide some. We all do. But overall, you seem to know how to keep your head and stay the course.
Yeah, but does she want to be 'won back' or is it a closed door? What is it? How can someone leave their husband based on 'falling in love' with someone they barely know, and maintain a long distance EA with an occasional PA?
Then continue to live with their husband whom they have demanded a divorce from, and go to counseling to 'heal the anger' so we can be better 'friends'? And in the counseling you can see we loved each other so much but were hurting each other. And her comment that we should have done this counseling a long time ago. Then she goes to talk to OM like it never happened.
Quote:
This reply was off the top of my head w/o rereading everything. If I see hopeful signs in future posts I will point them out.
Sometimes off the top is the most genuine. Please do point them out! thanks!
Quote:
Have a very Merry Christmas. Remember to "act as if" you will be enjoying many more together. Be loving and patient. Tell yourself "I can hold on. I can do this."
Yeah, that is what I need to do. Please tell me that you think this can work. I need to believe in it because the OM stuff that I thought were signals that is was fading have not turned out to be true.
Quote: Your W is saying that she wants those feelings and had them once with *you*.
She is also saying that she doesn't think it is possible, and she is getting them from OM now. But I know you are right and I am being negative.
Quote: She's confused and can see that had you both done this long ago, you wouldn't be where you are now. Even she can't deny that there is hope here.
Yes, but she says she doesn't want to try, she wants to stay in love with OM and for us to be friends and good parents.
ok, I know you had a lot of positives and I am just in a negative mood today. I need to perk up.
I am thinking that the best way to see this situation is not that she 'wants' OM over me, but that HE is THERE and I am HERE. She has feelings for him that right now overwhelm her feelings for me. I need to develop her relationship with me regardless of what her relationship with him is doing. I guess then at some point she may find herself having feelings for both of us which even though it sucks, it will make her have to think about what she is doing. Then she may be able to make a choice that heals our family. Right?
I guess it would be less difficult if she wasn't so emotionally neutral to me most of the time. But I guess we want it NOW.
