Well as I expected...my H is beginning to flat-line again. Not like he has in the past, it's not that he's not continuing his behavior (which BTW is a HUGE improvement)...it's that he's at that spot again where he's starting to revert a bit again.
Am I worried, nope. I know that this is my time to step up again and bring this to his attention. My mistake in the past would have been to sit back and silently seeth that he was going backwards. This time, I'm going to catch it before he backslides too far. I feel too that part of this backslid, in all honesty, is partially my fault.
Looking at my own behavior recently I think I've probably been sitting back too much waiting on him to come to me since his new behavior began. I'm not validating him enough, this is something I need to work on. I'm sure some of this is risidual from my "dontgiveashititis", but it's something I need to work on. Part of it is simply that I don't trust this behavior will stick around....well guess what? It won't if I don't step up too. So my resolution this week (I take things a week at a time) is to do more of the things I know he enjoys and be more verbal with him too...affirmation-wise. I haven't been doing enough of that.
I have lots of work on myself to do right now, and that's primarily just due to the pain etc of what I've experienced this past year working on this....and the major fact that I learned I couldn't trust that his "attempts" would stick around for long. Now that he's making changes and they are truly staying around....I've got to let go of that mistrust of the effort and work on truly accepting it....that's not so easy, but it's something I simpy have to do, otherwise it will come out in my behavior in other ways. So I'm working on it.
I've found that without really realizing it I'm still withdrawing from my H. I realized this last night while sitting on the couch. Instead of curling up with him...I was as far in the corner as possible, it was just something that dawned on me "GEL you got work to do!" I haven't hugged as much, but he's continued to do so. I haven't gone to him for kisses as much, but he's come to me...etc. He's even continued to come to bed naked almost every night for the past 2-weeks....this is something I do tell him I really enjoy and I have made attempts to cuddle up with him in bed as he likes....but during the day....I'm the one slacking really. So, that's why I say his backslide is partially my fault as well.
I believe I have fallen into that pattern where subconsiously I'm expecting "I've done all the work in the past...it's your turn now!"....and that's not fair. Just because I have been the one to do the largest portion of the R work in the past doesn't mean I get to sit back now and let him do it all. Right now, when he's trying to make these huge changes is when I really need to step up the most...otherwise I'll end up accidentally sabotaging these improvements....and wouldn't that be stupid!
I don't know if this will help anyone at all, I just wanted to give you all my observations...especially since this time I'm noticing "I'm" the one who needs the swift kick in the butt!!!
Looks like you just gave yourself that swift kick in the butt. I need similar kicks, mind if I borrow yours a bit? My W is also showing signs of effort, and I need to encourage/nurture that, as well as let her know that the boundaries are still in place and there is more work to be done, as well as reach back to her and show her my appreciation of her and her efforts.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Lass, I doubt you need a swift kick. I found with my sitch that I relaxed when he stepped up, not so much because I was doing anything negative but because I was acting like a woman. It may have been a little premature (that is, right after he started acting more aggressive I slacked off and it gave him a mixed signal).
I think what I should have done in retrospect is reassure him that I loved it and that it was just giving me more freedom to act in a way that was more natural to me. This would have pumped him up (you're so dang manly that I can't help but act like a typical chick in your presence!) while reassuring him at the same time.
I'm not sure if a comment like that per-say would work in my sitch. But I do find that, oh take at night for example, when he strips down and climbs into bed....he really likes it when I snuggle up the way he likes and I say something about appreciating his effort to come to bed the way I like him to. I can literally almost feel his chest puff up.
It's stuff like this that I need to be more forthcoming with....and I'm working on it, I think my biggest battle is conciously recognizing it when I'm not doing it...know what I mean? At least I know right now it's something I need to work on, so I think that's a good thing to help me keep this in the forefront of my mind.
Of course any other suggestions on things to say/do...are always welcome My H has never been the "macho marine" yours was though. At least, not as far as I know.
Lass, My H is absolutely the last person I would have guessed would respond to WOA. He is so self conscious, does not like attention beamed his way. But I tried it and noticed the chest puffage, as you said. A ha, I thought.
So I made a list of things to remember to do and taped it up in a prominent place in my home (coded of course, so he wouldn't know what I was up to). After a while it has become habit and I don't even look at it but it was difficult at first. Awkward and contrived.
Now he compliments ME and says how much of a man I make him feel like, with my kind words and admiration. !! What a difference, I never thought I'd be able to reliably fill this need and, for that matter, never knew it was a need of his. He has never, not once, stated what his needs are..I just figured them out as I went.
Well, I take that back. We did take the questionnaire on...drat, I just forgot the website...the author of His Needs, Her Needs. Anyway, we took that and I knew what was important to him but it still did not prompt any convos of "W, I'd feel loved if you did xyz..." Oh well, I figured it out anyway!
There is a big difference between relaxing in an R and taking for granted. It is ok to relax a little but it isn't ok to set yourself up to be pissed when he doesn't relaxes too. KWIM? In my sitch I know that I get better results with H if I relax once in a while and let him relax too. I do think it is partly "acting like a girl" like HP says. OTOH it is great to recognize when we are falling down our our end of the job. I guess what I am getting at is that working on the R at the same, constant, intensity is hard on folks. So - give H some WOA, snuggle with him and once in a while relax into whatever the current mood is (even if it is only companionate) and let him relax too.
Well folks...had a BIG event in the GEL household last night that required me setting a REALLY firm boundary.
I came home unexpectedly early yesterday afternoon to find my H looking at porn video on our computer with our son running around. I came in the door very quickly and my H was caught off guard, so I could see EXACTLY what he was looking at and watched as he closed out....he was caught red-handed viewing what he's told me in the past he NEVER views....with our son running around in the same room.
I was taken off guard as I walked in....but I asked him "what is that?" and got "a video", I said "I can see that, but you told me you don't look at that kind of stuff....but you're watching that with our son running around in the same room?" At this point I don't remember what his response was but it was one of playing it down.
Now normally, I would have gotten hurt and internalized an awful lot of this, but this time I didn't.....I got really ANGRY. I headed towards our bedroom to put my stuff up and with each step I became more and more angry to the point that by the time I reached the bathroom.....I punched a hole in the wall. Now, let me say at this point, I'm not a violent person....it takes a lot of pain for me to get this angry, I've been this way 3 times in my entire life....I literally was seeing red, so forgive me....I won't remember much of the conversation as I usually do.
I stayed in the bedroom trying to control myself for a few minutes, obviously my LDH would have heard me punch the wall, I was just standing there and shaking. He came into the bedroom to try to say "I'm sorry" and I just pushed him away, I couldn't stand him touching me and he kept trying to hold me....so I do remember "unless you want me to deck you right here and now you'd better back the fcuk off!!!" I never yelled at him though, because our son was around....but I was shaking, red, and shooting lasers with my eyes....oh yeah, and cussing (which I normally don't do either).
I was soooo hurt to find him viewing that material....and it wasn't like it was professional "fantasy girl" type material it was your normal everyday woman....someone I would be comparable to. That hurt! It was the fact that I'd asked him time and time again "do you ever use porn, if you do...I don't mind, but don't hide it from me, with a response of "No I never do that."....THAT hurt! It was the fact that with his behavior over the last several weeks I thought we were really making a step forward....THAT hurt! It was I felt he was making a fool out of me....THAT hurt! I do remember telling him all of those things....and then I remember looking him dead in the eye and very seriously saying "DO YOU WANT THIS MARRIAGE TO WORK?!" His answer was a very quick YES!!! in an almost panicky manner. I was literally on the verge of telling him to get out....but stapled my mouth shut and didn't say that, because I do not want a divorce and do still love him...I would have been saying that out of hurt.
Anyway....he kept trying to tell me "I know how you feel", well...that wasn't the right thing to say to me because I let into him on that. I recall saying something like "You can't possibly know what it feels like to be a woman and have the man in your life ignore you sexually unless you beg for it!!! I have NEVER, NOT ONCE UNTIL I MET YOU been ignored in the bedroom, NOT ONCE been turned down for sex by a man until I met you!!! So don't even try to tell me you know how it feels to be a woman who is sexually ignored by her husband and then comes home to see him viewing porn....YOU DON'T KNOW HOW I FEEL RIGHT NOW, because if you did you couldn't have done this to me. At this point he said another wrong thing...."well maybe you've never been with someone who'se experienced what I have in the past." Well, lets say that set me off again and he got an earful about what I'VE experienced in my own past (primarily about a very abusive (sexually, verbally, & mentally) 1st husband)...and about how patient I had been with my H because I knew he had issues (for the past three years). I told him I had been more than patient with him, but that HE was the one not willing to deal with his issues. Keep in mind folks this entire conversation....was with me as one really pissed off woman, I was still shaking and shooting lasers and I wouldn't let him touch me at all.
He knew I was absolutely dead serious that he was walking really precarious ground with me and our M right then and asked me "tell me what you want me to do", I responded something like "you know what to do, but you won't do it. You have to step up and take care of your issues, I can't and won't do that for you." "I don't think it's unreasonable for me to expect that my H would want me sexually and show it, I don't think I'm unreasonable to want my H to completely initiate instead of me having to beg you for sex." If you can't do these things then you'd better get ok with me getting my needs met elsewhere....because it's this crap that sends people out looking to have their needs met by someone else. So you'd either better get ok with me having an affair, or you'd better get ok divorced....because one of the two things WILL happen unless you step up....and I'm not someone whose likely to have an affair, so you figure that one out."
I also remember at one point that his viewing that material meant he was avoiding ME, he was getting some need met through that material that "I" should be meeting and that I wouldn't have a problem with him viewing that stuff if.....#1 I knew he did it, #2 I was included, #3 he was meeting my needs....but none of those three things were happening.
Right now I'm at a place where I still don't want him anywhere near me. He knows though that when we go to our MC's office tomorrow afternoon....he's going to have to start doing some real work and he's going to have to start opening up to her. I've had it with his avoidance, I've had it with feeling like I'm being made a fool of, and I've had it with living in a virtually sexless M when I now know my H does get his needs met without me.
We'll get through this, but right now.....I NEED A PUNCHING BAG!!!
Greeneyedlass I do not agree with what your husband was doing in any type of manner. The only thing that I would recommend is for you to ask him what does he get from that and see if you can replace his answer with you doing whatever it is if in reason of course. Men use video to fantasize what is missing just as woman have done the same but going to OM. Better a video vs. OW
"A man of knowledge uses words with restraint, and a man of understanding is even-tempered. Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue." Proverbs 17:27-28
I need similar kicks, mind if I borrow yours a bit? My W is also showing signs of effort, and I need to encourage/nurture that, as well as let her know that the boundaries are still in place and there is more work to be done, as well as reach back to her and show her my appreciation of her and her efforts.
