Hi Slowly - Welcome Home! Hope you and NG enjoyed Shanghai What an awesome surprise
I agree with the low-key V-day...You were just in SHANGHAI!
Take Care, SP
According to the Buddha, praise and blame, gain and loss, pleasure and sorrow may "come and go like the wind," but happiness comes if you can "rest like a great tree in the midst of them all."
Happy Monday everyone, even if you are under an impressive amount of snow
Our first week back just flashed by, with piles of work at the office and at home, for both of us. As a result, time for each other has taken a back seat, which is a worry, the speed at which we fall back into old patterns. Intimacy has been almost non-existent, and a couple of times when I walked into the study, NG flipped on to a different screen - I'm sure you can imagine how hyper alert I am to these reminders of the bad days. Thankfully I am able to get the duct tape out, and say nothing. BUT it is definitely festering away, and I need to work it out
C2F - the shopping was fab, and we are still distributing the little treasures we found. Thanks for the WOA, I have to go back and read a couple of my own threads to remind myself that there has been progress.
Pam - I do hope you are still around, this place just won't be the same
andy and SP1 - thanks for bumping me up
And now I will go back to what I should be doing, some meeting follow-up notes. My last few days here and it is turning out to be quite the slog (which may be contributing to my bleak mood )
I'm still around and I can personally vouch for the progress you have made since I was here when you started.
I have determined that my moods can be ultra sensitive if I'm not physically feeling up to par to if just some other not so good or hectic things are going on. Work in progress.
Hope you catch up and your mood improves!
Oh good deal on the duct tape.
Pam
"We must be willing to let go of the life we had planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us"
It's been awhile for both of us here, so I'm glad you posted an update. Sorry to hear that your time issues have created a dynamic you feel is less than appealing... and I'm glad you have the tools and knowledge to pull yourselves out of the predicament.
But I'm afraid I'm going to provoke the bear in his cave and ask you something, because I'm seeing a recurring pattern and I honestly don't feel that this is beneficial to you (or NG or your M) long term. Here goes:
Quote: a couple of times when I walked into the study, NG flipped on to a different screen - I'm sure you can imagine how hyper alert I am to these reminders of the bad days. Thankfully I am able to get the duct tape out, and say nothing. BUT it is definitely festering away, and I need to work it out
BTW, this is not a whack, so I apologize if it comes across this way.
So, Slowly, I've seen you dealing with this issue for some time. By donning duct tape for an issue which is not being resolved on its own, it seems to me that you're trying to pretend that you don't have feelings about an issue that is denying you both of honesty and intimacy.
My question is this: When is it a good time to go to NG and ask (nicely, of course), "Honey, I think it's time I let you know how I feel when I walk into the room and you automatically change computer screens. I feel insecure and fearful that we're not as close as I would like us to be, and I'm asking you to be honest with me."
I think he owes you 1) an explanation for his behaviors; 2) an apology for continuing to engage in secretive behaviors; and 3) an honest attempt at making sure that he's building trust rather than stealing it.
Hope you can find some compromise here, friend.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Pam, Betsey and amd - Thanks so much for stopping by, today I needed to come here and see some feedback
By donning duct tape for an issue which is not being resolved on its own, it seems to me that you're trying to pretend that you don't have feelings about an issue that is denying you both of honesty and intimacy.
And so we come to the nub of what is unresolved in our M. I still feel that we do not have satisfactory closure on the a and why we are still together. I see a more attentive NG, and cannot find any specific complaints per se. Except that I saw a side to NG for a while that was more expressive (more to me than ow by the way) but that part of NG seems to have disappeared with the alien.
What really holds me back is that I am never 100% sure that his screen flipping is deliberate. It could be a co-incidence. There are many more times when I walk by and there is no such secretive behaviour. And I know from previous experience that NG is simply super sensitive about ANY hint that he may not be completely honest or trustworthy. I mean, really really sensitive about it. So I need to be so careful about the 'evidence' if ever I decide to have such a discussion.
I think he owes you 1) an explanation for his behaviors; 2) an apology for continuing to engage in secretive behaviors; and 3) an honest attempt at making sure that he's building trust rather than stealing it.
Bets, I completely agree with you. I need help here to figure out how such a discussion can proceed. After 19 years of skimming the surface with NG, I find myself watching his words, actions, body language and learning so much about just how strong his feelings are about things that frankly I would get over in a heartbeat. So I feel while I'm still in this journey, I will make like a student and learn before I confront.
Sometimes it feels like I just want to sit, have the chat and get it all out. But I know with certainty that with NG, the approach is to break up the problem, and tackle them in 5 minute chunks - any longer and he will run for the hills. And I cannot tell him what is wrong, or what makes me unhappy. I see far more progress when I am more prescriptive - as in what he can do that will make me happy.
In a way, this affair has probably wiped his self confidence more than it has mine. Although he has not verbalized it to me, I rather suspect he is unsure about his own judgement, and is therefore happiest when I make some of the decisions.
Well, it makes sense to me since you largely described my h.
My h seems (an ASSumption on my part) to have a heightened sense of shame over things that wouldn't freak me out at all. I'm not sure the genesis of it but I'm certain that I didn't help it any during the bulk of our marriage when I was taking pride in slamming him during arguments and poking my nose into things that frankly were none of my business....
It's been difficult but I've dropped the rope on his behaviors as much as possible. He knows as well as I do what's tolerable and acceptable in this M. I refuse to be the watchdog for both of us anymore. I had that role for a long time and it, well, didn't actually get me anywhere. That's not to say that I never bring anything up but as Slowly pointed out, it's in small chunks and is as devoid as possible from judgement.
I know not everyone agrees with my approach (why would they? ) but it's lightened my load. I've got my hands full managing my own self.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
I'm glad you are finding some empowerment from thinking about this stuff.
Maybe this will help you (and Sage and anyone else) navigate these murky waters. Sage, I hear you on the judgment part--it's very tricky if we don't take care when telling others how we feel and manage to pull it off without coming across harsh and judging.
But I come bearing a bag of tricks here and some really great experience doing this on my own. Now I'm in a position to coach my D11--who is turning 12 next Wednesday--she's a middle schooler in 6th grade, where emotions run amok and things get out of hand very quickly.
After coaching a friend through this very issue yesterday--one who was very skeptical, I might add--I found myself seated in my living room while my D11 was sitting in the recliner and bawling her eyes out.
Now granted, the issue is something that's a no brainer for all of us, but I quickly realized that it's the feelings behind the issue that had her stuck. I also realized I was in a good position to help her not only deal with the issue, but learn how to do this effectively, honestly and authentically.
You see, building intimacy isn't about pointing out to someone that their behaviors are wrong or that they should feel shame for how you feel about them. Intimacy is learning how to share our feelings with others and hoping that a cooperative effort might yield better results--sans guilt--for BOTH parties. Not one. BOTH.
So using my D11 as my guinea pig here (she's not here to defend herself, so why not? ), I'll tell you her issue and what she decided to do about it after she asked for my input.
She found herself agreeing to be the partner of someone she'd rather not partner with for a social studies project. She wants to ask the teacher for permission to do the project alone... The underlying issue was tangled into 2 threads: 1) How the other girl might feel knowing that she didn't want to partner with her; and 2) How she felt either way.
Initially, she thought the girl would think she was racist (she's Hispanic and though fluent in English, doesn't really work at improving her language skills--i.e., grammar and spelling). She also doesn't pay attention to detail nor seem eager to learn geography to D11's level of satisfaction. I did finally get her to admit that maybe she is a perfectionist? But winding our way through the conversation, D11 finally articulated the real issue: "I'm afraid of 2 things: 1) either I'm going to have to do all the work to pull off the grade I know I can do on my own; or 2) if I concede, I'm going to have to live with myself knowing that she doesn't care about her grades like I do."
Yes, we can laugh about this here. But there are lessons for adults in this type of conversation. She agreed that she would try to appeal to the girl first... by letting her know how she feels about her grades and putting forth the highest level of effort into all her assignments, and that she feels the girl is allowing her do to most of the work. D11 agreed if the conversation doesn't go to her satisfaction, she would then tell her teacher her reservations and live with his decision.
What I'm trying to say in a very roundabout way is that when we're authentic at communicating to others how we feel and they have a stake in working on the R, why wouldn't they be receptive to finding a solution? This accomplishes 2 things: 1) You're not controlling their behavior by making them change, rather you are telling them how you feel and asking them to help you with the solution; and 2) You're building intimacy and trust by letting them know how you truly feel.
Slowly, this is working amazingly well with my D11--who appears to have emotional issues with friends every few days. She's quickly learning that she doesn't have to project to others when she's feeling anxious, but she's learning how to be emotionally honest.
My adult friends who have taken on this very issue to tackle have reported good results too. My skeptical friend yesterday said, "He's going to react by saying XXX, because that's the way he's always reacted. What's different about this convo from the others?"
That's easy... It's because the intent before used to be to make a point. The new intent was to seek a solution, and the universe/God will always help us get what we need when the intent is pure.
BTW, she called me last night (before my chat with D11) with some very encouraging results. Let's just say she believes.
So, to sum it up: Own your feelings, speak with passion, don't control the outcome and seek solutions in the form of compromise. I swear to you both that when I do this, 100% of the time, I'm pleasantly rewarded. This works splendidly with my XH... and I know he appreciates the fact that I can tell him how I feel without pointing fingers.
Make it about how you feel and everything will be fine. I promise.
Bets
p.s. Mr. Wonderful responds best in a 5 minute mode too. It can be done.
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
What an awesome surprise 
)
Betsey 
Slowly 
) but it's lightened my load. I've got my hands full managing my own self.