In mid-2002, I networked our home computers so that mine was not the only one online.... And so the trouble began...
My XW's idea about being online was not the same as mine: hers was more about "socialization". She re-acquainted with an old HS friend through Classmates, and he introduced her to Yahoo Messenger... You can probably extrapolate the rest of the story from there.
I seem to be "behind the game" constantly: I discovered Peggy Vaughan's excellent materials too late to glean the necessary insight into my own reactions to my XW's online EA, and I discovered DBing too late to put it into play when it might have been feasible... (sigh)
My emotions still tell me she's my wife. We've been best friends for 30 years, were married for twelve (5/92 - 8/04), and had 3 kids: S16, D12, and D11. No A/A/A, and we get along so well, people wonder why we're divorced. I figure many of them suspect something more, some "dark" reason(s)... but no - just a garden variety WAW... (Try explaining THAT!)
My XW's descent into online - and now offline - "activities" is alarming. So much so that I've been "guilty" of spying on her a couple of times in the past year. She is tremendously resentful of this and it drives a huge wedge between us... She's met - and had sex with - at least one guy she found through "chat"; that, for one, makes me concerned for the security of my children. She is a public elementary school teacher, and takes her school laptop home with her most nights. Recently, I verified (after suspecting for some time) that she has been "entertaining" a friend (or more) with a webcam attached to the school's laptop! I confronted her with this knowledge and warned her that if the school monitors these computers as they might (and probably should!), she could find herself in deep trouble, losing her job and even the custody of her children... Of course, there was a big blow up regarding my "spying", but when the smoke cleared, I think she realized (without much acknowledgement beyond "I understand your concerns...") she *was* going too far and pulled back. (To my knowledge, she has not used the webcam since...)
She was somehow able to rationalize her divorce in her own mind as "better for the kids" or I'm sure she'd not have done it; she's always been a good mother and she always put her children first. But I am concerned that in her compulsion she's allowing herself to lose sight of that priority and that her risk-taking will inevitably result in all this coming out somehow - and that will scar my kids emotionally in a way I don't even wish to entertain...
I have tried to make her see that all this is "not her", that she's been led into an insidious, slippery slope by hormones, MLC, congenital emotional disorder, whatever... She insists that "the chat world" is not as evil as I say; that she's made many "good friends". (Yeah, right...) On the other hand, she talks about getting help, but won't do it. (I think she doesn't want to learn that she may have been wrong and may have made a horrible mistake.) To my eyes, the dynamic between us is undeniable, but she insists it doesn't have any deeper meaning and that she & I "will never be again". This in spite of 2 sexual skirmishes in the past year that were - when it comes down to it - about more than just physical satisfaction. (She can be quite reactionary when she finds herself drawing closer to me...)
Anyway, I KNOW this woman. I have faith in her that inevitably she'll "wake up". But I also know that the longer this is allowed to drag on, the more my children are at risk. While logic tells me to be patient, I feel like I'm watching my house burn knowing my kids are inside and being told by police & firemen that I have to "wait for the right time" to run in to save them! My internal conflict is making me volatile, and that's not helping any either...
I guess I just wanted to get my story up here, maybe have someplace to "vent" among like-minded folks so I can stabilize my own moods & stiffen my resolve when needed... Thanks for listening & any feedback given...
You are right this the best site to vent on our situations welcome!
I understand you being concern with the safety if your kids and you are right the "chat world" is a world of fantasy with very few people go with good intentions. It seems to me that she has fumrged herself in this world of fantasy to not deal with her reality. And there is nothing you can do from stopping her. All things must fall by their own weight and they will, she will slowly but surely realize her temporary satisfaction.
On spying on her stop, its not doing you any good and is clouding your thinking , you might start seeing things that are not there. Check with your kids to make sure they are ok and safe but that is it. Step back from what is "you and her" for a while it will help. Happy Turkey day!
Thanks for the words of support. I am fortunate to live only a few blocks away from my XW & kids, so I see them almost every day. Her exploits have not really intruded on their reality too much - yet - so I am careful not to give them the impression that anything's wrong. The details/rationale of our divorce were not shared with them, but if they know anything, they know that "dad still loves mom". A couple of weeks ago, my XW actually danced with me (3 "slow dances" at a local restaurant) IN FRONT OF MY GIRLS! Certainly the lowest she's let her guard down since prior to the divorce as she's always been diligent and ultra-sensitive about "giving the kids the wrong impression". Of course, in the wake of that night, she reacted reflexively and withdrew so severely I could feel the breeze... That provoked an upset response on my part that is naturally counterproductive to my "cause"...
My S16 is a bit more aware of the situation between his mom & me. He's a sensitive kid & very sympathetic but I try not to involve him in much of this or share too much with him. (Don't want to put anything on his shoulders.) He knows though how much all this is ripping me apart, and is aware that his mother has a bit of a problem with the computer. She closes the lid on her laptop when anyone comes near - I guess for fear that they'll see her chat text - and this paranoia has not escaped him... Of course, she thinks that any observations he makes on his own are ideas that I have somehow planted in his head! This past weekend was my bi-weekly weekend of custody (the girls stay at my place on Saturday nights but my S usually stays at his house - that's okay with XW), and she decided to do something "new": she decided to go to a party at an (Internet) friend's house some two hours away...
When I picked him up to take him to work next afternoon, he told me he'd slept on the couch at his cousin's house (next door) because he "didn't want to sleep in the house alone". I didn't wish to exacerbate the situation, so I just told him that he could always come up the block to my place if he didn't want to be alone. He's never expressed anything like this before (not that I recall an exact duplicate of this circumstance but there've been similar circumstances), so I guess she'd informed him that she'd be home late (if at all). He did seem upset, and that of course upset me... I chose not to mention to her that she might be breeding resentment in her son as I'm sure that it would have somehow become *my* fault... but I'm sure that withholding the info only made my bristling shortness with her seem that much more inappropriate... (sigh)
All of this is so much more exasperating as I am determined not to complicate my children's lives by bringing someone new into *mine*, so I am allowing myself fewer 'distractions' than the XW has...
Yeah, I know... no one ever said it was gonna be fair...
Your nearness to your XW and your kids is a double-edged sword, isn't it. I have somewhat frequent contact as well. Sounds like you have a patient attitude about your sitch, which you will need. What are you doing to improve or grow?
I've noticed that guys in particular are amazed by what can happen when they start to truly invest in themselves. Although what happens to the XW is a different matter, it is not unrelated, as she will notice your positive changes. Perhaps reacting with anger, but perhaps with some regrets and reconsiderations as well.
Yes, it most certainly is a double-edged sword... I feel so strongly that my XW and I have such a unique relationship; even in divorce, we're closer than many married couples I know. Last Christmas she gave me a copy of "the five people you meet in heaven" and said in her inscription that she "cannot imagine a heaven where you would not be one of my five people", and ended by saying, "Please know how much I will always love you - my best friend!"
It can be frustrating that she chooses to deny what is so obviously there, but for this time in her life, I think perhaps that's all she *can* do. I concern myself with being "reasonable" (in *her* eyes) - but then I worry that I'm being *too* "reasonable". (Am I being Sir Walter Raleigh - or just his cloak? ;^)
Yet, with all this, she is doing some outlandish things... things I'd have thought unforgivable - but I can't reconcile *this* person with the one I've known for 30 years. It's like... I wonder if - in her early Yahoo chats - she encountered somone named Captain_Howdy ? ;^)
Anyway - what makes it doubly tough is my determination to make this as easy on my kids as possible. And I have come to feel very strongly that new relationships (hence, allegiences) are *not* the way to go. I am leery that even *befriending* a woman right now could only serve to raise the temptation level to perhaps pursue something new and I don't wish to go there until the kids are up & out (even if there's no chance of reconciliation with the XW)...
The *first* thing I did for myself after the divorce was to get happier and (physically) healthier by going back to my old job: I am once again a meter reader , and while some would say this is a waste of the high-potential brain God gave me, I say "Pffffffft!! I love my job - deal with it!" Yeah, I'm making half of what I made as a programmer, but the trade-off is that for me, "the day" is no longer merely a medium through which I travel to and from my job: I am an active participant in every day, and that is a gift.
(BTW, want some great FREE therapy? When you feel the need to talk, go outside to the nearest tree and find a squirrel. They are the most *attentive* little creatures you ever saw in your life! Talk to a squirrel and it will hang on your every word, I assure you. Of course, they don't *understand* a damned thing and they certainly won't *respond* - but I feel like I'm being listened to when I talk to them much more so than when I talk to my KIDS [or XW] half the time!) ;^)
Gaining insight into myself and understanding what I'm going through helps a lot. Michele's books, Dr. Laura, and Peggy Vaughan have all helped in that regard.
For the new year, I need to get a second (and maybe third) income so I can move out of the room my parents have been so generous as to let me use. (I will also need to finally petition the court to have my child support amount adjusted as I never did that when my income dropped.) Finally, I am determined to again do something that I have not done in some 25 years... I'm going to take up standup comedy again. Only thing is - if I'm going to do that, I have to make sure I remain sufficiently miserable... (Happy people make *lousy* standup comics, you know.)
Saw the kids & XW last night when they got home from T'giving in NC w/X-ILs. Gave the girls a kiss goodnight & gave the XW a hug, then went home...
Had a pretty good day today, chatting on & off with XW on Yahoo; everything was kept pretty light. Then, earlier this evening, she asked about Thanksgiving at my house. I explained that, as holidays go, it was a quiet one, with M & D, myself, two Bs, one SIL, three nephews, and my S16. M did the full spread, despite her ill health these days, and she's exhausted in the wake of the holiday.
My XW was very close to my M, closer in many ways than she was to her own. I know she misses and worries about my M, but she just doesn't seem to fathom that the M/D relationship she had with my M can never be again - at least, not while she's no longer my M's DIL... M loves and misses her as well, but she is also very protective of her brood - and in her eyes, this woman has hurt her S and is hurting her GC with her actions... Even when M begins to feel more tender toward XW, she must still contend with D, who is not nearly so forgiving...
XW was appalled that no-one helped M with the holiday cooking. She wants to offer to help with Xmas cooking & coordinate with other families (my siblings) to ease up the stress on M... I was so touched by her offer and her concern that it took me a while to realize how problematic her suggestion was... and how one stress would simply be traded for another. Ironic that my XW wants back the R she had with my M, and I can certainly sympathize with her frustration, but that's a cart that will *never* come before the horse; I know my family well enough to know that. And I had to try to wise her up to that, as diplomatically as I could... I wound up saying, "you may have to resign yourself to the fact that it may be that there's nothing you can do... as I've (reluctantly) learned from Dr. Laura recently... 'some things can't be fixed...'" Yes, there may have been better ways I could've said it, but there are many, many worse ways too. Anyway, she was hurt. She eased her way out of the chat, but I could sense that she was upset...
I called her shortly thereafter, and my perception was correct. I tried to explain that I was not being spiteful or hurtful in saying what I said, I just thought it would be dishonest for me not to let her know not to expect too warm an embrace from my family, even my M. I just can't see how she could think that some of these very natural consequences (of her actions) would be somehow escapable... Nonetheless, I felt lousy... (sigh)
You've got a problem; an XW that doesn't completely act like an XW. You've kept up a good friendship which allowed her the opportunity to never really understand she's divorced. It's odd that she would think your mother would be receptive to her. It is, on occasion, possible for the relationship between the X and the in-laws to continue, but not when the X hurt their son.
Let me ask you something. If you found out that your XW was dating, and serious, how would you take that? Like a friend? Or like a jilted XH? You've got some of the problems I did that are getting a little better...too close to the X and too convinced of a future relationship with her that goes beyond mere friendship.
I don't think you should ditch the relationship you have, but I wonder if you need more space. Space for you to grow without her around, to get comfortable with the concept of a life that doesn't include your X. I think you'll appear more attractive to your XW if you aren't so obviously still available for her.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Yeah, the XW and I seem to have the same problem in that regard - 30 years of close friendship. I still maintain that her decision (to D) was not well thought out... so many things she inexplicably thought she could "keep"... So much food for thought, but apparently little food for re-examination...
Yes, I understand what you mean when you say I am/have been too "available" (family members have told me this as well), but it's SO tough to achieve any 'distance' (physical and/or emotional) when you've got minor children...
I remember telling her over a year ago that this "old HS friend" I mentioned in my original post (who introduced her to Yahoo Messenger and who'd broken the ice of "inappropriate chat" with her) had done her a great disservice. That if he were the "really good friend" that she professed that he was, he'd have tried to steer her back to her husband and her marriage instead of making himself seem so much more important to her. She vehemently denied it at the time - but a couple of months ago conceded that I'd been right! (Quite a concession...)
For my part, I feel *I* would be doing her a disservice if I ever gave up trying to steer her back to doing what's best for our children. Inevitably, I'm sure that's what is and will be most important to her; it's just that I don't think she's ready to see that the divorce and the things she's doing now are hurting them. Even if we never reconcile, I'd like to see her devote the next few years *wholly* to the kids, as I will. (Not mine to decide, I know... but knowing her, I think that's what she will *want* to have done.) If I were to "give up", one day I'd likely have to answer for why I did... (sigh)
Don't get me wrong - I've no delusions that I'm "only doing this for the kids". But I like to think that the damage to *me* I can tolerate...
Weird... I saluted you earlier with "Hello again", but it seems this is actually our first communication. I guess you kinda get to feel you know people when you see their names on so many of the posts you read...
Quote: For my part, I feel *I* would be doing her a disservice if I ever gave up trying to steer her back to doing what's best for our children. Inevitably, I'm sure that's what is and will be most important to her; it's just that I don't think she's ready to see that the divorce and the things she's doing now are hurting them. Even if we never reconcile, I'd like to see her devote the next few years *wholly* to the kids, as I will. (Not mine to decide, I know... but knowing her, I think that's what she will *want* to have done.) If I were to "give up", one day I'd likely have to answer for why I did... (sigh)
I'm sure you didn't mean it quite that way, but a lot of this sounds like "controlling" and if I get that vibe she probably does because it seems as though a lot of the WAWs have issues with "controlling". You have expectations that she'll devote her time to the kids. You wish to steer her in what you feel is the right direction. Do you think when she divorced you that she felt she was going in the wrong direction? I imagine she feels she is right and just because you are getting along it doesn't mean she was wrong. And perhaps her opinion is that this IS in the best interest of the children.
All I'm trying to say is that she has to come to this on her own and maybe never will. That you can't control her or convince her how you're right and she's wrong. And also that there are two sides to ever story. It may help to consider what her side is and remember she thinks she's right also.
I think there is a difference between getting a life without her and becoming content with that life and "giving up". I think that the two people entering the marriage should be complete, happy, and content on their own rather than feeling completed by their spouse. Finding contentment without her in your life is just part of making the most of yourself. You can still leave the door open for her to walk through, but keeping your life on hold waiting for her isn't doing her a disservice, it's doing yourself one and your child too.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
