Wow, all that and no blow up! I'm glad you're taking time to process things. I agree with NYS in that marital counseling is hard until the individual issues are out a little. The plus you have (that we didnt) is that you both seem to be verbal enough to get the issues out on the table to be dealt with. I'd be careful though.. with your H's anger things might get tough at home between sessions because they are likely to make him unhappy if the MC focuses on things he needs to change. I say that because of the anger management issues I had over H's A. The MC seemed to multiply my anger when the MC tried to point out where I was at fault. I've had to accept that I share a portion of the blame to even begin to work through the anger and deal with my part of our problems. Maybe IC can help your H with that.
Good for you! I know this is a lot to deal with and it is even more difficult around the holidays, but I think this is great news. NY is right, though, that a lot of hard work is ahead and changes and results need to be monitored. I can hear your excitement and hope in your post and I think that is wonderful news. I def. think you guys each need IC and MC. This may be hard for H to fit into his schedule, however if he wants to keep his family intact, it needs to be a priority. So far this is words, not action, but these words and the conversation you had may be a first step. I congratulate you for deciding to place some boundaries in your life...and I am happy that H is recognizing and at least verbally agreeing to step up to the plate. Wonderful news, Heather. I know difficulties lie ahead and I think you should use caution in getting too excited, but it seems this maybe could be a turning point and I truly hope it is!!! You guys have to learn completely new interactions and that will take time and much work. If you are both truly willing to do it, the possibilities are there.
He says I've just been so hateful and so bitter for such a long time and that he has defense mechanisms galore.
Sounds like he is judging you. He may have felt that you were hateful and bitter toward him, but were you really? Or is that what he was interpreting?
"Receiving love is one thing and tends to easier than giving it...do you have love to give....to me?"
Receiving love is passive. Giving love is a conscience decision requiring effort.
"When we were getting along so well, didn't you feel it?"
Does H only give love when he is getting along w/you? That sounds like conditional love.
Sorry to add more to think about when you already have too much to chew on. To balance that off, I really am happy for you Heather. This is an important step for both you and H. Be cautiously optimistic.
Good for you for standing up to him. Sounds like you kept your cool and he had to keep his. You set the tone well.
Great advice - nothing to add, I second everything, esp still_hopeful. Caution is very important now, but this is surely progress. It's a long road ahead, but that's what life is about.
Dear Santa, Heather has been nice *and* naughty this year. But she's put up with a lot of crap so be good to her on Christmas. Your pal, P3.
I told him that I think I should move out after D2's birthday and that if he was willing to sign a 50/50 custody agreement, we wouldn't have to go through lawyers this time, at least not right away.
That took real guts, Heather. I'd like to say I'm proud of you but maybe that's not really a position I'm in right now. Maybe I hope someday you'll be proud of me.
I said "H, this is much your decision as it is mine. I WANT to work this out. Maybe if you would agree to counseling or SOMEthing, we could work through some of these issues we have."
Well said.
And guess what he said? OK!! I about fell out of my seat.
No doubt! I did fall out of my seat! I hope my laptop's okay, or they're gonna be pissed at work...
PLUS, he has an appt, made all on his own, with a ear nose throat doctor about a possible sleeping disorder (Bud, are you reading this?!).
Yes, five or six times now just to make sure I'm reading what I think I'm reading. I'm quite curious to see how that appt turns out. (I hope he feels a little silly when the doc asks if his wife ever notices him gasping for breath in the middle of the night!)
He told me I'm a button pusher. I said, so what. You choose how you react.
Well said. Again.
And before I get too far into it, I'd like to know your take.
I'd say don't look a gift baby step in the mouth, or foot, or whatever. You're not out of the woods by a long way but you're so much better off than you were the day before yesterday, so
Congratulations, Heather!
Should Santa bring H a copy of DR this year?
Good luck!
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
Thanks for the encouragement. I do know there is much work ahead and I also know that it is a possibility that counseling won't change a damn thing. The thought pretty much terrifies me, because in my eyes, that's really our last hope. Unless he has a self-induced revelation about our marriage and what it means to him, which isn't a likely scenario. Not likely because he really does view things oddly and unless someone else can change his perspective on a few things, I don't know that there is much hope for us.
It seems that every R talk we have, something else is said that rings in my ears. Even though our last talk had a positive ending, the beginning was very, very rocky. As we were arguing about what 50/50 custody means, he was stating his case that the kids should remain in his custody even when he is travelling, even if that means they stay with his parents. I told him he is clearly not acting in the best interests of the kids because they would certainly rather be with their mother than with their grandma. He told me he didn't know about that. He said it in a way that made me feel like he really believes that. I also asked him what he told the kids the night he left me at the mall, and he said they honestly never even asked. He just loves hurting me when it comes to the kids, I really think he does because it makes him feel so preferred and so loved. He admitted telling his Dad exactly what I suspected, which was only that I had gone to dinner with my brother. Although he said he told them the truth the next day, that he had left me at the mall. I asked him how they reacted and he said they just asked "What did she do for a ride?" Great, glad they are so concerned with their son's erratic behavior. I think they just think that in order for their son to do something like that, I must have been acting REALLY badly. Anyway, like I said, there is soo much that needs to change. On the positive side, he says the same thing. But obviously we each think it's the other person that needs to change....ugh.
I'm not sure what to expect in marital counseling. I know we'll have to tread VERY lightly at first. I'm not even sure how I'm going to find a counselor. He doesn't want anything to do with my IC, so I'm thinking that the yellow pages are my best bet, which I know is not a very good way. But short of asking my coworkers for recommendations, which wouldn't look very good, I'm not sure what else to do. Thoughts?
(NYS) Only time will tell, you'll either see real results or not. In time, if you don't see significant changes, you can make your decision knowing that the relationship isn't working and you've both tried.
Yep. I agree with all of your observations that you made regarding his statements to me. The biggest, most reassuring thing I will get from marital counseling I think is that someone will now hear HIS side. Which, for me, is important because I keep telling myself in my down moments that the only reason people are being supportive of me is because they haven't heard his side. Maybe I'm just as abusive as he is....we tend not to see our own flaws because our reasoning for the things we do is right there in the forefront of our minds. So that thought has kept me from being able to take too strong of a stance in this R. One of the things I will have to wrestle with in MC is how exactly I lay out my issues with H without seeming like I have an endless list....because I sort of do have an endless list. It takes a long time and a lot of examples to really convey the way my H reacts and behaves and perceives. It took me a long time on this BB, posting as often as I want. It's gonna be a really slow process going once every couple of weeks and feeling like I have to try NOT to blame.
(Piglet) The plus you have (that we didnt) is that you both seem to be verbal enough to get the issues out on the table to be dealt with.
Yes, getting the issues out to be dealt with is a positive. Thanks for pointing that out. Sometimes it's hard to find the specific positives in such a mess. The problem seems to be how we respond and react to the issues that are out there.
(Piglet) The MC seemed to multiply my anger when the MC tried to point out where I was at fault. I've had to accept that I share a portion of the blame to even begin to work through the anger and deal with my part of our problems.
Yes, I think this would be a problem for my H as well. And I worry that if the counselor pushes him too hard, he'll get up and walk out never to return.
(Still_Hopeful) I congratulate you for deciding to place some boundaries in your life...and I am happy that H is recognizing and at least verbally agreeing to step up to the plate.
Thanks. This is the first time H has ever agree to do anything specifically to help our M. It used to be that he would just tell me to "do whatever I needed to do", even if that meant leaving. I know now of course that he was bluffing. My question is why? Why would he bluff on such an important issue, knowing all along it wasn't what he wanted? What exactly is/was he trying to protect?
(Still_Hopeful)I think you should use caution in getting too excited
Yes, I was very excited at first. My reason and caution has kicked in already, don't worry!
(Jabez) He may have felt that you were hateful and bitter toward him, but were you really? Or is that what he was interpreting?
I was. I felt and still do feel, like I am insignificant to him. He chose other things before me consistently and never cared enough about my feelings to allow himself to be influenced by them. The bitterness comes from feeling insignificant.
(Jabez) Receiving love is passive. Giving love is a conscience decision requiring effort.....Does H only give love when he is getting along w/you? That sounds like conditional love.
This is more true since the A than pre-A I think.
(Bud)That took real guts, Heather. I'd like to say I'm proud of you but maybe that's not really a position I'm in right now. Maybe I hope someday you'll be proud of me.
Aw, shucks. Thanks Bud. His doctor appt with the ENT specialist is tomorrow. I'll keep you posted on that.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
I asked him how they reacted and he said they just asked "What did she do for a ride?" Great, glad they are so concerned with their son's erratic behavior.
Aren't they the tree that that apple didn't fall far from? Also, no doubt they've been hearing his side for some time and have formed their opinion, just as your family has. Blood ties work that way.
Why would he bluff on such an important issue, knowing all along it wasn't what he wanted?
Isn't that the nature of a bluff?
His doctor appt with the ENT specialist is tomorrow. I'll keep you posted on that.
Maybe the Dr. will diagnose his sleeping disorder as Kickedwifeoutofbedroomitis.
And I worry that if the counselor pushes him too hard, he'll get up and walk out never to return.
Quote: He doesn't want anything to do with my IC, so I'm thinking that the yellow pages are my best bet, which I know is not a very good way. But short of asking my coworkers for recommendations, which wouldn't look very good, I'm not sure what else to do. Thoughts?
Heather, if you like your IC, why don't you explain to your IC that your H is now willing for MC, but wants to start fresh with someone neutral? You could get a recommendation from your IC for someone who would have the attitude you are comfortable with. VJ
Why would he bluff on such an important issue, knowing all along it wasn't what he wanted? What exactly is/was he trying to protect?
Could be that he knew that you wouldn't do it and that he was getting what he wanted b/c he didn't want to have to deal with his abusive and alcohol tendancies.
But she's put up with a lot of crap so be good to her on Christmas. Your pal, P3.