Learning to Trust Myself IV

[heatherg]

There were so many helpful posts on my last thread. I read through them again and again.

(Bud)He'd rather be bitter, angry and resentful than happily married. Somehow that's working for him.

H has always seemed more comfortable being....unhappy, yes. I've described in past posts as 'melancholy' I think. Not depressed per se, just not particularly happy. You know, he says I'm a 'bitter and spiteful woman'. So it's funny that you should call him bitter and resentful. I remember a particular time when he called me that. We were talking about his pornography habit and he told me he could not discuss it with me because I am a bitter and spiteful woman. Oh, and his alcohol usage was always off limits too because I only 'made things worse'. Oh, and when I asked him why he lied to me about something he told me it was because I 'attack him'. He said 'why should I feel the need to lie, it's because you attack me'. One thing sort of led to another here, but do you see the pattern? So who knows who is bitter and resentful, we probably both are. I am definitely ready to let it go....but not until he stops this nonsense. I want a relationship. I don't know how to *not* be resentful of how he keeps these things in place that prevent a relationship from occurring. How do I manage that? I'm not a 'bitter person'. I bitter towards H. That's it.

(NY) Bottom line: H's behaviors are aimed at keeping you away, pure and simple.

Yes, it seems so. I guess there's nothing I can add to that.

(Jabez) If you start a dialog stating that your goal is to come to an agreement on how and when you can move back into "our bedroom", then your are respecting his feelings. Ask him what it will take for you to move back in.

I can try this. A conversation that's pointed and solution oriented. Good idea, thanks. I've tried telling him how I feel about it, etc. But I haven't tried taking the solution approach. Ok, so I'm not there. What needs to be accomplished first that he sees as currently lacking. I will give it a try. Just for the record, my sense is that he will not have anything much to say. I'm 99% positive that this is about control, so no matter what I try to do to respect his feelings, he'll put it out of my reach. By avoiding, redirecting, ignoring, or deflecting. But there's that 1% chance that you're right and that's why I'm here so I will give it a try. We're talking about buying land and building a house. We're supposed to be going to look at a piece of land when he comes home for Thanksgiving. My feelings are really mixed. On the one hand, how can we possibly be thinking of making this huge investment together when we cannot even kiss or sleep in the same bed? On the other hand, maybe it's what we need. I think if I had a real bedroom, a place for my stuff and a place that's quiet that I could be calmer about letting this ridiculousness run it's course. It brings me back to something NY said thought "Your life with this man constitues always trying to better your circumstances, but it never works out that way." So true. The house would be another example of that. But my point here is that I think H really wants it. So I can use this discussion as a platform to talk about the setting some guidelines or criteria or whatever for the things that need to change in order to put us in a place in our R where we could both be comfortable making such an investment. We'll see.

(Jabez)...moving back into the room is a step in healing your R/M and that is what you want to do.

True, and you would think that wording it this way would comfort him. But it won't. It will threaten him. Because he doesn't *want* to heal the R/M. I wish I was way off base in saying that, but I really don't think I am.

(Jabez) "I really want to get past what happened, I'm asking for you to gorgive me. I am sorry for what happened. I want to understand how you feel, what it is that it will take for you to forgive me. I want to know what it is that will help you see that we can have a happy and healthy future together. If you don't believe me, and don't want me, then I don't see much point in us staying together."

You're giving me some really good ideas here, thanks. You see that last sentence, the part about not seeing much point in staying together if the former is true? The kids, Jabez, the kids. H will latch onto that statement and tell me how selfish I am, I can only think of myself, I don't give a damn how this will affect our kids as long as I get what I want. I'm not trying to shoot the ideas down; I fully intend to use them. I'm only testing my psychic abilities, lol.

(Bud) Don't let your strength trap you just because you can take it.

Wow. Thanks. That's one way of looking at it. The other is that I'm absolutely too weak to look at my children and tell them that this is the way it needs to be. Because it doesn't need to be this way. I'm not dying, H is not being outwardly mean to me. We are getting by. I just don't know how to get to a point where I say to my kids "I know you won't be happy if we split. But Mommy won't be happy if we stay together. My happiness is more important, you see?" My family swears this is H brainwashing me, but I swear to God that although I haven't always thought of it this way, putting my happiness above theirs, H has indeed done a wonderful job of pointing it out.

(Bud) If you have to leave to make your point, that doesn't make you the bad guy.

This is so hard because I've always valued H's opinion more than anyone's for so long. If he tells me I'm the bad guy, then I must be. H told me yesterday that he watched Spanglish. He said it "brought back a lot". I asked "Why did you see us in them?" He said "I saw a lot of myself in him". I said "And I suppose you saw me in her?" He said "I can't really say that, but..." I said "But what?" He said "Did I say but? I didn't mean to". If you've seen that movie, you will know that she was portrayed as a very ugly selfish woman, likely going through a MLC. Adam Sandler was portrayed as a laid back, gentle, fun-loving kind of guy who valued his kids above all else. I was so angry when I hung up the phone because I don't remember the parts in Spanglish where A Sandler barred her from her room or fu@ked her but wouldn't kiss her or insisted that they stay together for the sake of the kids but yet wouldn't wear his ring. I missed the parts where he got physical with her and got drunk and refused to let her sleep. I missed the parts where he locked her out of her house and kept her kids from her. I also missed the parts where he was drunk half the time. I guess I need to rewatch that movie, huh? I SOOOOOOO wanted to point this out to him you guys. I am still VERY, VERY tempted. He is so convinced that he is a good person because he genuinely loves his kids. That somehow excuses everything else he does and thinks. And I am not as good of a person because I would be willing to leave this marriage.

(S_H)When I say you are doing great, Heather, I mean it. You are dong a lot of introspection, thinking things through and putting in a noble effort towards your M for your family.

Thank you. I appreciate your words very much.

(S_H) I think your question about whether you should be in your bed or not is actually not the underlying issue, Heather. The real issue is the entire pattern of this R.

You're right. But I think me taking a stand and insisting that me feelings be put on equal ground with his is the only way that the underlying issue will ever change. That is what makes the bed issue so potentially important. Thing is, I can't determine if this issue should be used as such a platform because of the way it ties in with the A. It just might not be the right thing to take issue with. It's possible that I may not understand or agree with his reasons, but that it doesn't really matter. Maybe after what I've done, I just have to accept it. Accept it on his terms and in his timeline.
Before my A, we were really at a point where I went out every Friday night. I had quite a bit of freedom. I wasn't happy I had that freedom. I wanted a R, not freedom. I tried to get him to come with me, he never wanted to. He never tried to hold me back from going. It was like he didn't even care. Fridays were his night to get drunk so I always felt like he actually liked it when I left because then he could do what he wanted without me being around. As long as he could get drunk, he didn't care about me. That's how I felt. But my point is that he was actually the opposite of controlling before the A. H hadn't exhibited controlling behaviors since the earlier years of our R, aside from when we'd argue or fight.

(S_H) Tell me more about this abusive behavior. Is this new or has this been going on?

This is hard for me to address because abuse is a hard word for me to swallow. I'm tough and strong and independent. How do you "abuse" someone who describes herself as that? I don't know. H has never hit me. The abuse is mostly mind games. Intense emotional reactions. There have been physical instances, but not too many. The worst instances were in the beginning when the A was revealed and then when I tried to return to my bed. The latter still upsets me to think about.

(S_H) What were conditions like pre-A?

I answered this a little above. Pre-A, the drinking was killing my feelings toward H. That pretty much summarizes everything. I hated him at times for continuing to do it even though he knew what it was doing to our R. And then of course, there was pornography which I never really grasped the full effect of because I didn't allow myself to determine how often and what he was actually doing. Still don't know. But the good things-H was very affectionate. Loved to cuddle and sit close. Would give me massages all the time (on the nights he was drinking, out of guilt I think). Was great at buying anniversary, b-day, x-mas gifts. We were always out and about as a family. Eat out a lot. But we did not go places together, without the kids. I always felt like a pretty low priority overall.

(S_H) And determine if you think he is moving towards what you consider tolerable or not

Wow. This one is tough because H works at a snails pace. It took him 10 years to cut his drinking down from 6 nights a week, god knows how many at a time to 2 nights a week 12 at at time. He can't understand why I wasn't happy with that progress. Sure, I'm happy for him. He apparently has/had a problem that he was managing in his own way. He's no longer drunk 6 nights out of the week. That's great for him. Unfortunately, our R took a serious beating over those years and the improvement was not enough to negate it. So, I can see improvements from when H first found out about the A. But it seems that everyone is in agreement that once again, H is moving at a pace that is riduculously slow.

(S_H) Heather, if he refuses to work with you on this, then you cannot fix this M alone.

I don't even know what would constitute working on it. You know, when I read the five LL, I couldn't pick a language. I just kept thinking, anything would be good. The same thing comes to mind here. H really does think that the A diminishes my needs. At least until we get back to "ground zero". And before we get there I need to be sorry *to* H, which I haven't figured out yet.

Wow. This has been a lot. And I still have more. But I'll save it!