No problem at all with the hijack, it helps keep my post closer towards the top of the page.
What's with all this...
Quote: FWIW, I think you are a good guy too.
First Karen, then Lust and now you too! Geez..... Well, I do thank you all for the compliment as I'm sure it was intended.
But, you know, there is probably too much truth in that statement. Especially if I seem to convey that through simple BB posts. This is why I had posted earlier my thought, Nice Guys Finish Last. And you know what? You absolutely right, that's not going make her panties wet.
This is probably the best 180 oppertunity that I have right now. It's another item to add to my aforementioned List. It also falls in line with your comment about relegating my needs into last place. I'll wait until she's feeling better, maybe this weekend. And I like your closing suggestions too.
Snook.
"And wrinkles only go where the smiles have been." J. Buffett
Logically, I know you are right. Truthfully, I tried. years ago. And just got used to having, delegating, carrying it all. Emotionally, I react to your statement with, do you mean share my power, as in opportunity, and the most powerful frame of all.......... choice?
Not a ice sliver chance in heLL, I respond with full emotional reactivity. So do I. I don't know BF. I think you give yourself too much power in terms of responsibility for your ex's actions. That power of choice you mentioned. You have mentioned before not protecting the R/M, letting OM into your life, too close. Ok, not the best idea. But how can you claim the power in that instance? She made a CHOICE just like you always had a CHOICE to not put up with it. You may do things totally differently in the next R and she may still make HER OWN choices. Leave you, cheat, whatever. You just cannot control someone else, ever. I like you BF. I am concerned that you will try to make the next R/M "perfect" and God forbid, it doesn't work out again. What kind of blame/control are you going to give yourself then? But you poked squarely into my issue, trust. That is my issue as well, so I can relate. I'm really struggling with this right now. Now even so much with H, but with myself. I don't trust myself to not F this all up again. So, part of me just acts like I don't care. Defense mechanism. I can see you almost going the opposite way. On hyper alert. If only we could get to a happy balance between the two, our R's might work. But like you said, being too emotional can make people swing to the extremes fairly easily. I don't know how to live any other way right now. Ever read Social Theory and Social Structure by Robert Merton Required reading, think it was undergrad. Along with Durkheim, Mead, Marx, Cooley, Weber, to name just a few. zzzzz No, some of it is quite fascinating but when you are immersed in theory day in and day out it gets a little redundant. Probably shouldn't be saying that since I teach it Advanced pygmalion stuff. Hey, are you taking a shot at sociologists Have some respect. Now go and write me a 10 page paper on...hmm...lets see...the effects of the new technologies (such as the SSM BB) on our social construction of reality, its impact on postmodern society, as well as the effect it is having from 3 varying sociological perspectives: symbolic interactionism, functionalism, and conflict theory. Aren't you glad you are not in my classes? put my rose colored glasses on towards the end. (or maybe that was because she was just so smoking hot.... I never should have put her on that workout..... ) Currently the glasses are off, I think, and I still think she is a pure woman thru and thru, and was a great wife, untill she wasnt. I knew how to lead to be attractive, didnt know how to lead a M for long term success. Different applications, different perspectives needed, So now you are responsible for her "hotness"? I know you were joking but I'm just using that as an example of how you take on too much control. Also, with the man "leading". Ok, I will buy that to a certain extent. But tell me what role that puts the woman in? The opposite, to follow? Most women will rebel from that sooner or later. At least the smart, sassy, hot ones often doubt ability to overcome own issues with trust and self fulfilling outcomes. (cat stevens--hard headed woman.) Exactly. You are attracted to the very people who may rebel from you in the end. Tough one. You obviously know how to attract. Like you basically said, it's the keeping part that gets you all confused. No words of wisdom here, unfortunately. I think some people aren't destined to have successful M's. Too emotional, too passionate, too controlling. I am lumping myself in there as well. Still in cynical mood today. Trusted her enough to have vasectomy reversed Wow BF. And at age 21 too. See, that is a great example of you seeing things black and white. No grey. You assumed your future would go one way and then, bam. Very decisive, a major life alteration. It is respectable and admirable and yet, freaks me out at the same time. You have very srongly held beliefs, values, etc but they seem to be evolving as well which is good. You are still very young. Lots more f-ing up to be had. Thanks for sharing BF. Like we tell Snook, you are a "good guy" too.
First Karen, then Lust and now you too! Geez..... Well, I do thank you all for the compliment as I'm sure it was intended.
But, you know, there is probably too much truth in that statement. Especially if I seem to convey that through simple BB posts. This is why I had posted earlier my thought, Nice Guys Finish Last. And you know what? You absolutely right, that's not going make her panties wet.
Snook/Nice Guy, I don't know about that. Nice Guys are good as long as they are still strong, attractive, interesting. All too often we lump the nice guys into the passive, walk all over me category and that is NOT going to get the panties wet. I liked BF's idea to be very assertive in the next sexual encounter. Shows strength and that you will not play by her terms all the time. That's hot. And gains respect.
You have mentioned before not protecting the R/M, letting OM into your life, too close. Ok, not the best idea. But how can you claim the power in that instance?
Exactly. I gave up my power in that instance. I have said it before. I was insecure about career, then cut of EC, then was jealous, and showed it by being distant and pushing away.
You see me here, and perhaps think this is how I was then. Nope. My M did not fail when I was this way. Things were good when I was this version of me. It failed when I became insecure, needy version, for whatever those reasons are, pygmalion, or testing her, being competitive, needing to have value, whatever it was, Im not clear. Its not just one thing. It was a series of both of our choices. I agree.
part of me just acts like I don't care. Defense mechanism. I can see you almost going the opposite way. On hyper alert
Im always hyper alert, comes with my meth, and coke addiction. I did as you are?, only way overboard. How much of an EC would you have if your H acted like he didnt care, if you left or stayed, that OM was hitting on you, etc?
being too emotional can make people swing to the extremes fairly easily. raising hand, extremist here. blech. need inner value systems and pre made decisions to temper self. Said that to you before. I know my strengths/weaknesses.
Hey, are you taking a shot at sociologists Have some respect. NO. I love this stuff. <singing> R E S P E C T, now I see what it means to me.....I was unpacking and pulled that one out, and remembered self fullfilling theorys, subtle body language, and subcommunication cuing, and went Oh. Crap.
Now go and write me a 10 page paper on.... Sounds like fun. Happily....I would spin your head right off, were I in your class, and then gleefully demonstrate my over the top theories via live interactions with other students, in target rich environment. Whence you would say I see it, but I dont accept it, it must be something else. LOL. (reminds me --I need to get signed up for some classes, as soon as things settle a bit.)
Also, with the man "leading". Ok, I will buy that to a certain extent. But tell me what role that puts the woman in? The opposite, to follow? Most women will rebel from that sooner or later. No. Have to disagree completely. Why do you fight that? It doesnt make you lesser. My x was sassy, strong minded, stubborn, intelligent. said to me one night, during our pillow talk, something along the lines of --I really like you being in charge, being in control of things. Its good to be 'your woman'...... If you ever tell anyone that I will deny it.---- I kept that secret, but contract is over now. I completely forgot about it, untill a couple months ago. It didnt make complete sense to me back then. Once again we see women leave nice guys, doormats, for 'neglect'. Its not about, following so much, as respecting and being a partner. A team. Someone still gotta be team captian. Women can and do fill that role, but the nookie desire goes out the window, for one or both of them.
At least the smart, sassy, hot ones No, they will just test, and continue to create heat and sparks and some small amounts of conflict. Which is good. VERY GOOD.
I think some people aren't destined with one side of your brain you say I dont believe in horoscopes, and then with the other you say this.... LOL. Destiny, smeshtiny, I made bad choices because I am undereducated, and overly emotional, like everyone else. I have to know WHY for everything.
it's the keeping part that gets you all confused
Cant control the other, but women arent AS prone to wandering, like men are, if you meet their needs--- in an attractive manner. I had alot, but wanted? pushed? am a idiot at any rate, something that most likely doesnt exist. Wasnt intentional. Not gonna check to see again, I know that.
Lots more f-ing up to be had Gosh I hope so. and down, and behind, and over and around, and outside, and wheeeeee I cant wait.... Oh wait. you meant making R mistakes.... hahah
you are a "good guy" too.
AHHHHHHHH!!!!! ACK, NO. urghhh I hate you. TAKE IT BACK. I thought you liked me, stop cursing me. <snicker> you did that intentionally, I know it, just to irk me. Ohhh Im sooooo going to ....<many and various evil thoughts percolate rapidly through BF's misogynist mind> ....asterisk you again. HA!!!
Wow BF. And at age 21 too. See, that is a great example of you seeing things black and white.
Didnt have urge for children. Abhorred thought of accidental, or evilly plotted, children with random W outside marriage. Knew if I could afford surgery for reversal, I could afford children and would be ready and wanting to have them, if I went thru with it.
I see the grey, just dont want to live in the murky fog. Ended up there anyway.
The advice I gave Snook, is for snook. There are major differences in your respective situations. I liked HP's recommendation, but definitly go with your gut on trying to confidantly attack her. Bad idea me thinks also.
When you start up another thread I will give some very specific ideas on physical escalation, and also my theory on why she reacts to non erogenous touching the way she does.
I think you should also reread Nops advice to you.
Snook you selfish guy, I hijacked you again to put you 'ON TOP'
Quote: Snook you selfish guy, I hijacked you again to put you 'ON TOP'
Not part of my plan. D@mn, I want her ON TOP of me for a change. lol
Blackie, I've been following along with HD's thread too. There's good stuff for me in there as well. I do see the similarities and differences too.
HairDog
Come on, don't drop the ball now it's rolling with all of these great posts. Start another thread already. If we don't hear from you soon we'll assume that the cops have showed up.
"And wrinkles only go where the smiles have been." J. Buffett
Quote: Nice Guys are good as long as they are still strong, attractive, interesting.
I agree with that statement. That was precisely the message that I was trying to get at. Being a nice guy is all well and good, but that I still need to be strong, intelligent and all that.
i.e., confidance = attractiveness.
And your also on target with "lumping" the nice guys in the the "passive, walk all over me" types". They just reside a little closer to the gray margins.
Snook.
"And wrinkles only go where the smiles have been." J. Buffett
Yesterday, left work a little early for the holiday weekend at my boss's encouragement.
When I got home, W asked if we should go to a store or two and exchange/return a few things from last week, or wait until later next week. I told her to get herself ready, that I wanted to get that over and out of the way. She got a quick shower and got dressed then came into the kitchen. Then asked me the proverbial question. "Do the jeans make my ___ look too fat? I told her "Absolutley not, you look great. I really like that outfit on you". She looked really good in those jeans too and the tailored white blouse accentuated her curves. I was about to say a few other choice words but then from over my shoulder, D10 chimed in with "Wow, Mommy you really nice". So I suppressed them for the moment, but whispered them to her later on while we were out.
Now, bear in mind that all we intend to do a store #1 was exchange a pair of shoes and 2 articles of clothes. W headed for the return counter and asked if I'd take D10 back and find the right size shoes, that she's meet us back there, so we did and D10 found them. We were there for a while, and had more shoe browsing time w/ D10 then I intneded. While there, I'm quickly reminded, it must be genetics or something and that the days of Barbie dolls and Barney videos are long gone..."Oooh, Daddy, look at these. Aren't these Sooo cute" or "EEewww, look at those, yuck, one wonder they're 70% Off". Lol
After 10 min's or so, D10 and I head for the front counter looking for W. No where to be found, up and down the isles, even try calling her on the cell inside the store to locate her. Finally find her in the womans dept. looking through apparel. I was a bit miffed, and let her knew that we'd been looking all over for her and that she didn't tell us where she was going or even answer her phone. She appologied, and said she found a few good deals on things for her Mom and my 2 Step'D for next year, everything was on sale. Meanwhile, D10 a literally pulling my arms off to get back to the little girls dept, so she can find her replacement outfits. W said, please take her back there and she's join us and in few after she finished looking.
So off we go, (I get dragged) and now enter "round 2" of the apparel match. We couldn't find an exact match on both items in the right size, but did on one. So, now it's alternative time for item 2. This means, we (she) have a lot more choices now. Repete as above in the shoe dept, except now we're holding more stuff to try on and pick from.
D10 - "Daddy, I like this one".
Snook - "No, your not wearing that. Where's your mother"?
Snook - "Hey, how about this one?"
D10 - "No way Dad, nobody wear that any more"!
Snook - "Yes, that one is cute. Where's your mother"?
D10 - "Ooo... Daddy, I really like this one".
Snook - "That one costs too much. Where's you mother"?
Snook - "How this one on the 70%off rack".
D10 - "Eewww, Dad, I'm not wearing that".
Snook - "Where's you mother"?
W does finally show up a while later. Not only to see how we've progressed, but to also show me what she's found for her self and ask if I like. At first, I was beginning to get mad, at her taking her time and not just joining me, hepling me, saving me sooner and what all this stuff would actually cost only a week after Christmas. But then I thought, you know what, this is good "bonding time" w/ D10. And really, my W doesn't get out too often and doesn't get the chance to shop for her self much. Now W wants to know what I think about her selections. Despite my predetermined spending plan (none), I knew we could afford it. I offered my 2 cents on what I like and what I didn't. She agreed
and said that she'd put a few thing back that she wasn't really crazy about anyway and that she didn't want to spend any money. (was this BF "test"?, You bet!). I could tell she was feeling good about herself and happy she was doing some "girl-ey" stuff for her. So she met me in the middle a little, put a few items back and we headed for the cash resister. By now, it's dark outside, there was a shift change at the register's and none of our "exchanges" were visable. I was getting uptight about how long we were in there and how much it was all going to cost. But in the end the cashier got everything worked out, D10 was happy with her exchanges (+ 1 extra item). W, had a couple of new outfits and a few items already for next years christmas. So, after being in the store for 3 hours, I looked at the two of thier faces when the cashier hit "Total"...$200...
I just smiled, said thanks for your concern, but I knew it would be around that. We can afford it... Now come on, let's go get a Pizza! We'll save the other exchanges for next week...
So that's just what we did and we shared a wonderful dinner together. Then came home relaxed and re-watched "March of the Penguins" that they both fell asleep to the night before. Good movie, but the way and tey both enjoyed it.
So, I figured a couple of "deposits" into the emotional bank account for both girls. And now later today, I'll invoke the conidtional provision that I have on my W's clothing purchase's.... Hang out "back stage" in the dressing room while she tries them on and shows them off for me.
'Cause then I get to see her naked!
Last edited by snookchaser; 12/31/0501:16 PM.
"And wrinkles only go where the smiles have been." J. Buffett
I'll invoke the conidtional provision that I have on my W's clothing purchase's.... Hang out "back stage" in the dressing room while she tries them on and shows them off for me.
you think its your conditional provision.
this is an example of one of her 'seduction' games-- doing her modeling show for you. show her with your eyes and expressions what you think of her curves, etc. Reward her when she is finished.
I don't know BF. I think you give yourself too much power in terms of responsibility for your ex's actions. That power of choice you mentioned. You have mentioned before not protecting the R/M, letting OM into your life, too close. Ok, not the best idea. But how can you claim the power in that instance? She made a CHOICE just like you always had a CHOICE to not put up with it. You may do things totally differently in the next R and she may still make HER OWN choices. Leave you, cheat, whatever. You just cannot control someone else, ever. I like you BF. I am concerned that you will try to make the next R/M "perfect" and God forbid, it doesn't work out again. What kind of blame/control are you going to give yourself then? 
Have some respect. Now go and write me a 10 page paper on...hmm...lets see...the effects of the new technologies (such as the SSM BB) on our social construction of reality, its impact on postmodern society, as well as the effect it is having from 3 varying sociological perspectives: symbolic interactionism, functionalism, and conflict theory.
I did as you are?, only way overboard. How much of an EC would you have if your H acted like he didnt care, if you left or stayed, that OM was hitting on you, etc?
Whence you would say I see it, but I dont accept it, it must be something else. LOL. (reminds me --I need to get signed up for some classes, as soon as things settle a bit.)