Quote: -------------------------------------------------------- You suggesting I should consider a different approach? Like leaving her there on the sofa? --------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely. Let her suffer the consequences of her own choices. She went to sleep on the couch after rejecting you, she can remain there until she awakens. I am not talking revenge. I am talking about you stopping the doting. Non-reciprocated caring will leave you being the only one that gives a rip about the relationship, and even worse, it alleviates any discomfort for the non-reciprocating spouse. Don't pull a cover over her either. She can wake up cold.
It isn't your responsibility to get her in the bed. She is an adult. Stop treating her like a china doll.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
When our spouse is not behaiving, in our idea, of the way they should be, we tend to try to take up the slack. IE, LFL* tried to be aggressive and lead her H to ML. He did not respond of course because this in not his idea of a womans appropriate behaivior.
Ok, I see your point BF. But was the emphasis on HIS behavior meant just for my H or do you mean men in general? If most men want to lead, and LD men are not comfortable leading, AND do not like the woman to lead, that is quite a problem I guess the only way to make that scenario work is for the woman to back off and the man to step up. That's the only way it can work. "You can lead a horse to water"....and all that fun stuff. But I can make the "water" as attractive as possible like you were saying:
A woman thinks 'he makes he feel something, what is that'. or 'I like being with him he makes me laugh and I feel good around him. He 'understands' me'.
That is definitely what makes me attracted to someone as a woman and I am sure it can be the same with a man. H and I were lacking big time in that department last year. Just weren't interesting to each other. I still fear this will be the kiss of death, despite major improvements.
Fear will kill the R. avoidance makes women go 'blech' passionate drives may cause clash, but also cause respect.
YES YES YES
* LFL thank you for being a handy reference and tough enough to handle it. I appreciate it. Ill pick on someone else next time.
I've been "asterisked." Get the disinfectant! Get the iodine!
Now you got me questioning my W's thoughts to my actions as of latey. Maybe she IS waiting for me to take it to the next level. That for her, she has passed the teasing level and now it's just frustrating to her. All talk and no action. And since I keep acting like the dog that's chasing it's tail (banter, banter, banter), she may be thinking, "Ok, when is he going to do something about it".
Maybe Snook, but if your W is LD she may not be frustrated (take action!) but frustrated (stop bugging me!) I think HD's have to be careful about putting our interpretations onto them. They just don't think the same as "us". Their thinkin is stinkin! Now I'm just getting goofy. Too many chocolate rum balls
I have seen this reference elsewhere, other places I hang.
What does Ive been asterisked mean? is it bad? I hope so.
and LD men are not comfortable leading, AND do not like the woman to lead, that is quite a problem
They havent learned, or been taught. Environment, conditioning, PC BS, causes them to push it down. Untill as Stig said the hen pecked H runs away to reclaim his masculinity.
This is why the W role is to not constantly nag, 'test', poke, command, wear her H down to a nub. ( a Females role should be to do these things when dating.)
Your right LFL it is a toughie. I said that. trying to get to your H's thru you is nigh on impossible. YOU have to change, not punish him when he is leading, reward good behavior. HP has been down this road for 2 years now? and she has quite a strong inner personality to squelch. she has taken it and aimed it at differnt efforts.
Gel has been doing it for quite a while also. She has years of negative reinforcement to wait for her H to undue. From what I have seen, shes just the woman to do it.
Its a toughie for the HDH's to try to overcome also, and try to implement 180 in being more assertive and leading, when there feminist W are fighting them the whole way with no 'apparent' positve results. ] The fighting is positive though. Its the first step.
I have seen this reference elsewhere, other places I hang.
What does Ive been asterisked mean? is it bad? I hope so.
No go. I think it'll just remain mysterious. Have you been naughty or nice? Hmmmm????
Untill as Stig said the hen pecked H runs away to reclaim his masculinity.
Ooohh, that's a good one. I can totally see my H as leaving for this very reason, but would never admit it because of all the PC BS you mentioned. Yep. Can you even believe for one minute that I might "peck"? Not sweet innocent LFL. I'm an angel. Hark the Herald Angel Sings....
YOU have to change, not punish him when he is leading, reward good behavior. I have changed and I need to work harder on rewarding his leading though. Still don't trust it.
Maybe she IS waiting for me to take it to the next level. That for her, she has passed the teasing level and now it's just frustrating to her. All talk and no action
Maybe, probably. I do know You have to keep leading to the next level. sexual innuendo, confidant humor will not incite her to attack you. LOL. well sometimes it does, right baltoman?
it just engages her. its verbal foreplay. You cant keep doing foreplay and not following thru. YIKES. frustration will ensue.
Thats why I say grab her by the hand and drag (playfully) to the bedroom, or throw her over your shoulder and put her on the couch. make out with her. (you can even do this with your D around,)
If she says I dont want to, stop, look at her, then give her a peck say 'ok' or 'ok we will finish this later.' then go do whatever you were doing. Without reactivity.
Do you see the things that MR. HP does that rev HP's engine. they seem so innocuous, so not sexual to us as men. Its the delivery.
Quote: Nops suggestion are the correct necessary way for her to come to understand this is how it is, a logical acceptance and understanding, and a long- term solution for true harmony.
Mine is to intersperse it with fun, and make it easier to get there.
Mine causes a reaction, every man wants to be able to 'make' his wife 'want him'. Nops causes her to realize this is a choice and removes the uncertainty of reactivity.
Thanks for the explaination and I can see your point more clearly. In the case of a male thats behaving sheepishly, there is absolutely no element of attraction. There is no confidance, strength or any pure "male-ness" about him. Which flip-flops the whole M-F dynamic. What female is going to get revved up by a male acting lke that.
I understand the things that you and NOP have shared with me are not "exclusive". Your suggestions, center more on the having fun with it, the "unpredictable mystery man" stuff, while NOP's suggestions are more direct and "matter of fact". This is not to say the the NOP's don't have fun with their interactions, thay have already shared some of those.
Quote: Both take a certain amount of courage,(creating confidance) and a detachment from what the outcome may be.
I like that one. I need to internalize it. "Water off a ducks back"...Success lies in the response.
Thanks Blackie,
Snook.
"And wrinkles only go where the smiles have been." J. Buffett
Quote: That ('he makes he feel something, what is that') is definitely what makes me attracted to someone as a woman and I am sure it can be the same with a man.
Thanks, a females perspective, agreeing with BF's suggestions point out and reaffirm areas where I have been appearently been lacking.
Quote: H and I were lacking big time in that department (avoidance) last year. Just weren't interesting to each other. .
Similar boat here. I'm just trying to figure where it all went and more importantly what steps need to be taken to re-attached and build some EC. My recently updated list so far. Supplicating and Placting have been scratched off for obvious reasons. Playful, flirty sexual banter have been added. Also included is the recently re-discovered long sensual kiss... Anything to add?
Snook.
"And wrinkles only go where the smiles have been." J. Buffett
Quote: Let her suffer the consequences of her own choices. She went to sleep on the couch after rejecting you, she can remain there until she awakens. I am not talking revenge. I am talking about you stopping the doting.
Your right on target here, this is a reaction (doting) that I must eliminate. I should have left her there and gone off to bed myself. That would have been the catalyst to addressing her rejection. What would have been her reaction? I don't know. What's she going to do? "Cut me off"? lol.
Quote: Non-reciprocated caring will leave you being the only one that gives a rip about the relationship, and even worse, it alleviates any discomfort for the non-reciprocating spouse.
I see your point, plainly here. As long as I continue to overly doting, she never get pushed out of her comfort zone and the issue doesn't get addressed. It just gets sympathically 'swept under the rug' with no consequences.
Snook.
"And wrinkles only go where the smiles have been." J. Buffett
I guess the only way to make that scenario work is for the woman to back off and the man to step up. That's the only way it can work. "You can lead a horse to water"....and all that fun stuff.
LOL 
