There you are as always with encouragement.. thank you!
At a minimum he worries about it when you're not happy. Which isn't your problem, is it? I mean, you being happy is your problem but not him worrying about when you're not, or feeling guilty about it if you're not. Great point. I was feeling guilty for being a little down last night, but you're right, I'm allowed to have my moods. I bounce back fairly quickly. H is either going to learn that's *normal* or he can keep reacting, but it's his choice and not my responsibility to alter how I feel just to make him comfortable.
Yes, I get your points because you express them so well! And hey.. I'll keep doing what works because if H manages to break your *big* heart, I'm gonna kick his butt..lol
Have you posted on your thread lately? I'll go check.
I haven't been keeping up very well lately. But, I'm going to ask a quick favor anyway. I have a little quandery over at my thread that I need some input on today. Would you mind hopping over? This time I remembered to add your thread to my favorites so I can find it again.
It's been a busy week here. Christmas functions and S19 came home from college. SO great to see him H and I haven't spent much time together, but the time we've had has been pleasant. My GAL is in full gear and so is his it seems. I have to wonder about us functioning so well when we hardly see each other!
Alot of positives for me and H as far as breaking the cycle of control here and we're getting along well. I can't say right now that we're growing closer as a couple, but being at peace is a good start. I'm dropping the rope in so many places that it's having big payoffs for me. My stress level is virtually non-existent and not trying to fix things is leaving me able to be more emotionally supportive. I'm realizing that everything that happens around here doesn't have to affect me unless I let it so I'm not as invested in how things turn out.. leaves me free to be loving and supportive when I need to and it's creating space for H and the kids to grow with THEIR solutions. It's so nice to not feel that weight on my shoulders and allow everyone to carry their load! Which leads me to a probably epic post about S19:
If I havent mentioned it, S19 has quite a parking history at Auburn. I'm telling this part to show how my genius son has a major forgetful side and H generally tries to change and control that. I've learned to accept it over the years and play interference when I can and pray that he'll have a secretary someday! He was supposed to be home Weds evening. He called H and said he'd be home Thurs because he had parked in a restricted zone, forgot to move his car and it was towed. This is the fifth time in 3 semesters that he's done that and it's cost him @ $1000.00. I don't say much because I don't pay the fees, but H has gone into orbit a few times. This time though he didnt! S19 called and expressed surprise that H didnt chew him out and was supportive about it. Good job H! Byron Katie has definately made a difference in his attitude towards S19.
S19 came home Thurs afternoon with his GF. They stopped along the way to shop and eat. We were chatting and GF started listing the things they need to do over break and was basically telling S19 where he "had" to go what he "needed" to do, etc. It sounds like she has his whole break planned for him. I wasnt happy with the way she talked to him, but didnt say anything except "S19, let me know what day we get this week so I can plan for it, OK? And he said "what day do you want?" and I said "Oh no.. I've been there before. You tell me when because we're not going through what we did over Thanksgiving" He said "weds". They had been here about 15 mins and GF said "we've got to get to the church to help them decorate for the wedding". Her sis is getting M today. S19 said "well, call her and ask if they're there, because if we go now and they arent, I'll get stuck all night. Ask them if they really need me for anything. I really want to spend some time with my family. Dad will be home at 8:30 and I want to be here" She called and said "(her sister) says you'd better have your butt over there in 5 mins to help! We'd better go or (her sister) is going to be mad!). S19 said "Mom, what do I do? I want to help B because they have to move some heavy stuff, but I want to hang out with you guys tonight too" I said "I can't answer that. It's your decision.. you do what you need to do and we'll understand." GF said "I'm going.. are you coming?" S19 said "I wanna talk to mom for a minute, go ahead and I'll be right behind you" She left.. then came back in and asked again "are you coming?" He said "yes, in a bit" So she left.
S19 talked to me and said that he's torn between all the people that he wants to spend time with while he's on break. I told him that I understand and that me and H know that, especially this weekend. I said that I can't tell him what he should do.. no one has the right to do that because it's his time and his life. He said he really wanted to hear what I think and needs my opinion. So, I told him that I don't like how GF plans all his time out, and then demands that he does what she wants or gets upset. He said well, she wants to be sure that I know what's going on. I try to spend time with everyone and have a hard time saying "no". I usually go with the first person who asks or whoever is loudest. I told him that I can't be the loudest person in his life. That I love him and respect his choices and refuse to be the overbearing Mom to go up against his GF trying to control his time. He said "are you sure you cant?" and smiled. I said "hey, I know I hold the Mom card, but I'm not going to use that recklessly! I don't want to ever cause you to be unhappy like that." Then I told him that I don't appreciate how she talks to him. That it might just be the momma coming out in me but I've never told him he "has, must, needs" to do anything the way she does. And he said "you can you know" and laughed. And I said "listen, I know it would be easy to be able to say, Mom says I have to do this or that, but it's not going to happen unless it's something that's very important that we'd like you to be there for" And I talked to him about how this isnt about GF and his family.. it's more about his life and allowing someone else to make his decisions. Allowing me to do that is just as bad as allowing her to do that. And I said.. a couple of years down the road I don't want you to look back and see that you've let a squeaky wheel get you to where you are at that point. Eventually if all you do is exactly what she wants you to do, you're going to drift apart from the people you love.. not just your family and you'll drift away from some of the interests that you have too. Then we talked about how normal it is to want to spend every waking moment with his GF. She's really an adorable girl, and I love her to death. I told him that I've been hoping it's a matter of maturity and they'll work this out. Then I said "I hate to say this, but I'm going to because I need to be honest. I think GF is selfish and it bothers me" He said "Oh! She is selfish. I'd agree with that." Then I told him that it bothers me that she leaves no room for his family and friends and doesnt consider us, and that on top of his not wanting to say no is hard. I said, you guys knew they were decorating the church, yet you had to stop so she could shop on the way home. He said yeah, she thought we'd stop in here and run over there. I said "where was the consideration that you'd want to spend an hour or so here?" He said.. yeah, that's not right, and she springs stuff on me when I think I have time to hang out too. And to GF's defense, S19 should speak up and not blame her because he isn't firm about what he wants to do. I know from experience that she often throws a fit if he doesnt do what she wants, but it's still no excuse. I think we're going to have to be careful to not let him play us against each other if they stay together. I think this is the first time I've actually recognized H's passive nature in S19 and I might mention it to S19 some time in the future and see if he sees that in himself too. I guess it's true that we learn how to act in R's from our parents! H has always let me plan our time. Some times that great, but it's a burden too, so I worry about S19 and his GF that they might re-create that pattern.. I see it in her parents R also... then again, I hope it's just me projecting!
We talked and planned a way for him to get some time in this weekend. He took D11 to decorate with them and came home and played with the boys for 30 mins before bedtime. He met H for lunch yesterday afternoon after he took GF shopping. I havent seen him since our talk But, he bought a suit yesterday and called me several times to ask my opinion on what he was buying. I love it that he still wants to talk to me and confide in me. It's SO hard though. He looks to me to make those hard decisions still and I'd love to, but it doesnt help him to grow. Letting go of that though, I worry that someone else is going to get that job and he still won't be making his own decisions. But, I can't control that either!
Please say a prayer for S19 and his GF. I've protected every little hair on his head for so long that I hate to see him give up his independence so easily. He's pretty stubborn when he needs to be, but he's just such a nice and agreeable person that I worry he'll give up his life inch by inch. I found an old notebook of his that he wrote his life goals in. I'm worried for those dreams of his. Some of them he's well on the road to accomplishing, and others he's looking forward to.
If you have anything to share on this subject, feel free! This is our first to leave the nest and I've always called him our experimental child, but shouldnt it be easier at this point?
Sheila...I don't have a bunch of time right now, but I think you did great! You can speak to S19 so openly and honestly, and he gets what you are saying without taking offense to it. And if you can help him along, at this young age, with some of the wisdom it took us years (and lots of heartache) to learn, well, that is just a blessing for him!
Way to go! I'll stop back later today when I've got more time. VJ
I understand about the time crunch. Thanks for replying and pointing out the positives between me and S19. He really does value what me and H have to say and I know that's a blessing!
I think S19 talked to his GF over the weekend, or maybe she has thought about our convo. We all had a good talk about Christmas plans last night and GF and I were talking about going shopping together. So, we're looking forward to a good break together and maybe the issue of S19's time is behind us for now!
Things are fine here in limbo-land right now. Not perfect by any means, but without the finance problems that H lies about (at least not in the last couple of weeks!), there isn't much to post. H and I are so different and a lot of healing is going to have to take place for both of us to feel comfortable being close again. I feel like we're drifting back into pre-bomb sameness and might suffer for it, but H doesn't agree, so we'll see
I've been thinking alot about DBing and everyone who's waiting right now for a turn-around in their M. I've had two great examples of DBing in the recent future. Maybe this will help someone on the board to have hope over the holidays, and show that you might think things are over with the WAS, but that doesn't mean it's over forever. I think alot depends on the LBS ability to be patient and most of all, forgiving.
When H and I divorced 6 years ago he was a natural DBer. It's his nature to be passive and let life unfold. It's one of the things that drives me crazy about him, but I know it's the thing that brought us back together. The first few months were rough, but then things settled down between us. He didnt argue with me, pursue, question, issue any ultimatums. He went out of his way to give me time and space, and be considerate after we lived apart. I know a part of this was because he didnt feel he had a right to because of what led up to our divorce. But considering it, do any of us have a right to demand that someone be in our lives in a certain way if they can't? We can only control what we're willing to give and let the OP make their choices. We were lucky. H decided that he could still give me love and friendship during that time. The thing that brought me back to him was pretty much what I titled this post. I came back "home". That place that's comfortable, familiar and secure and the person who I knew understood me and loved me better than anyone. I look back and think that maybe H and I shouldnt have reconciled, but we did. We did for so many reasons, but mostly because he didnt stop acting like my H when he was with me. He never treated me like the enemy or mentioned that we were separate (which is amazing). He always said "we" when we talked, and talked of "our" future. It was usually things about the kids, but he didnt separate us in our discussions. He'd ask me if I needed anything, and always invited me in when I went to his house. He created a life for the kids there and didnt act single.. he basically picked up our life in his new home. When I was with him it felt familiar. He made changes in the ways that drove me away, but he didnt make drastic changes that said he was moving on without me. Any arguments we had were because he still acted so familiar with me and like my H. Whatever it took, he'd always get a hug out of me and said ILU every time we talked or saw each other. I hated it at first, but then I noticed that he said it without expectation and it was nice to hear. He didnt blame me or show me his anger. Basically what I'm saying is that he loved me unconditionally through our divorce. We should have done things differently when we reconciled and worked through our issues. This doesn't answer the question of "should we have reconciled" or "will we make it work now", but it's just a little on what H did that made me want to come back to him.
The other sitch is with my sister and my BIL. I would've said their M was over and buried a couple of years ago. He was in the Army and returned from Korea to drop the bomb. He had reconnected over the internet wit someone he dated in HS. For two years he didnt touch my sister, and told her he wanted a D when he retired from the Army. He took trips to FL to see his OW, lied to my sister over and over, spent money like crazy on OW and her kids. He made OW the beneficiary on his insurance, spent every holiday with her, would disappear for days at a time. He was sent to Iraq about a year into this and my sister sent him a box every month. He was there for a year and never called or wrote her once. He took his leave home at the middle of his tour and went straight to OW's house. My sister was told this by a friend of theirs. Still, she sent him a box every month and wrote him a letter. When he got back he took leave and went to visit his family and refused to take my S to see our family too. He saw OW, and made plans to retire. He agreed to move my S back home, and she assumed he'd move on to FL. He wouldnt tell her anything. When they got to OH, he told my S that he was going to stay with his dad for a few months. He never moved to FL to be with OW. Over the course of 6 months he moved in with my S in her house and they are now a couple again. He hasnt said much to me, just that he lost his mind and had a MLC. He offered to talk to H back in the spring when we started having probs. I don't know how my sister hung in there the way she did, but she also didnt stop acting like his W. She threw a few good fits, called OW, and wouldnt let her H sleep with her, but other than that, she acted like his W when he was at home no matter how crazy he was acting. She cooked for him, did his laundry, invited him places, and went on with her life. After she moved into her house he wouldnt stop coming over and she basically told him that he wanted a D and she was ready to move on because he obviously hadnt changed his mind. He would come over at all hours and she put a stop to that. Said she'd like to be his friend, but he needed to respect her work schedule and couldnt just stay at her house sometimes and at his Dad's at others. She didnt push him too much and she didnt ever issue an ultimatum. I think my BIL went back home too. He got caught up with a fantasy that started in HS and decided to see "what would have been". My sister didnt have a choice but to give him that space, or move on. She decided to wait it out and it worked. He didnt find what he was looking for, or magically become the person he told himself that he would have been if he hadn't married my sister. He found out that he'd still be the same person no matter who he was with and still face the same problems in his life. He found out that my sister would be there with him through all of that.
I also realized that truth in a way, although differently. I found out that H will always be the father of my kids (duh), and he'll always be the person I'll turn to when it concerns them. What he does will always impact them and me and I can't run from that, and I'll always consider him because of them. No one can father my children like he can.. no one can understand our history and what we want for them. Really, there's no room in this family for more than one mother and father no matter how hard we try to escape that, our kids will keep us family and anyone else would be on the outside. That's just our truth and I know people get re-married and build great families after divorce, but I can't see that working for us.
Anyway, another epic post, but I'm hoping that there's hope in this for someone who's frustrated and waiting. H and I actually divorced and reconciled and my sister's M was done and over, but still there was hope.
Things have been going pretty good here. We've found a peaceful place and I'm making peace with it. Still a lot to accomplish, but there isn't a lot of day to day stress between H and I. I wish we were closer.. I wish our physical R was better, but other than that, there are a lot of positives for both of us.
Small Christmas Eve dilemma brewing for me. I had decided not to go to H's parents today. Many reason.. mostly because I don't want to go. We don't have a great R with them, there's been a lot of tension between them and H. They havent visited or called the kids since the bomb dropped. They just aren't giving of their time and energy at all when it comes to their grandchildren. On top of that.. H is having a hard time coping with his resentment. He gave his Dad a kidney 6 years ago and although he doesnt regret it or think his Dad owes him - he is hurt that he doesnt have time for him or our children. His parents were not very supportive of him when he lived there while we were separated and it's driven a big wedge. Anyway, his Dad asked me if I'd come today and said we need to start being a family again. I told him that I love him, but have never really had an R with them in the 18 years I've known them and I'm tired of pretending. We can work on this in the New Year if they really want to.. no hard feelings, I just don't see going there and feeling stressed when we don't have to do that. I want them (and me) to enjoy Christmas without all the underlying unsaid stuff. He said I need to come so we can talk. I told him it's not a good time for talking about this, but I'll see them at H's grandma's in the morning. It was a calm, positive convo (if you knew his Dad's temper that's a good thing)
Last night H voiced that he'd like me to go today. He didnt actually ask me to and told me he wants me to do what I want to do, but that it would be nice if I did. Ughhh. I said something about when "we go" and he said "see, I knew you'd change your mind!" I hadnt.. it was just a slip of the tongue. He said if he has to go into "hell" on Christmas, it would be nice to have me by his side..sigh. I've asked my older two kids what they think and both said they understand why I'm not going.. they're not thrilled either, but do want to see their cousins. I feel like I "should" go, but that's the way I've always lived. I've done what's expected of me, and everyone else just sweeps the probs under the carpet. I'm tired of Christmas eve at his parents that has no love or the meaning of Christmas at all. I'd rather stay here and get the food ready for our family celebration tonight, but I don't want to let my family down either. It looks like us not going on Thanksgiving, and me not wanting to go today has had an impact on his Dad... they've ignored H's request to work on his problems with them since he talked to them in July. His mother is a very COLD person. I feel like his Dad is asking so she won't be p*ssed on Christmas and don't know if they'll really try to change anything, or if we'll just go and they'll assume like they always do that their obligation is taken care of. That and his Mom tries to make a show out of being Grandma after not seeing the kids for months (she sees her other grandchildren daily) and my kids are inevitably hurt by something insensitive that she says or does. I'm so torn about what to do today.
What should I do? These are people who often say "it's not convenient" when we invite them anywhere. It's not convenient for me to go today.. I have a lot to do here. If I was just not going out of spite, I'd go because that would be wrong.. but that's not the reason. It's more because I feel apathetic towards an R with them and just don't need them in my life.. or to spend a major holiday with.
Between your post and RNC's sitch, I've come to realize over the past couple of days how chock full of bad advice I am! So I'll just keep all that bad advice to myself. The only thing I'll say is after you've made your choice, don't second guess yourself. You know you're not being mean or vindictive, so whether you go or whether you don't you're doing what's best for you and that's okay. You've already done a lot for others this Christmas season.
SO ENJOY CHRISTMAS DAMMIT! DON'T STRESS ABOUT IT!!!
Sorry, was I yelling? I prescribe more Christmas carols for myself...and maybe some egg nog. Or corn liquor. Perhaps some Mad Dog 20/20 for the holidays?
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
H and I haven't spent much time together, but the time we've had has been pleasant. My GAL is in full gear and so is his it seems. I have to wonder about us functioning so well when we hardly see each other! 
But, he bought a suit yesterday and called me several times to ask my opinion on what he was buying. I love it that he still wants to talk to me and confide in me. It's SO hard though. He looks to me to make those hard decisions still and I'd love to, but it doesnt help him to grow. Letting go of that though, I worry that someone else is going to get that job and he still won't be making his own decisions. But, I can't control that either!