Hi Burgbud! Once again, thank you for your sane and insightful comments! Don't take responsibility for his reaction (geesh, I'm not good at that am I? Thanks for pointing that out ) And space.. yes, lots of space on this one. I'm fully expecting that he'll have to move out on his own to start making positive changes for himself, so I'm gonna have to be the queen of giving space, yet remaining supportive and kind. His reactions, defensiveness (justification/guilt relief).. I think are mostly a struggle with himself too, so I do feel sad for him because he's fighting himself on these issues too. I mean, even if I wasnt pushing, I think he sees the same goals he'd like to accomplish... at least hes said that "As much as you want me to change, I want myself to change too". This will be a big 180 for me in attitude by accepting that he's a good person who's struggling with some big issues, instead of seeing him as my H who doesn't care enough to give our me/our R what it needs. Might need a reminder on the "quit it!".

You're right about H being a good Dad. I posted a long time back that Matt going off to college was one of the things that sent H into a downward spiral. I dont know how a man feels about his oldest son, but I do know that H is VERY much invested in Matt, although they've maintained a somewhat strained R until lately.. it's easing just a little. H has always pushed Matt to be his best and said he doesnt want to see him make the same mistakes he's made. We've butted heads about this over the years. Matt is someone who takes reasoning very well, and is soooo easy to communicate with. He's stubborn and sticks to his guns, but always cares what we think and in conscious not to rebel so much that he's disrespectful. So, I basically take the lets talk it out approach with the kids and H takes a more heavy handed approach (except.. hmm.. he's a very inconsistent disciplinarian, and negoitates much more than I do). He allows them to push him to his last nerve with negotiations and then he puts his foot down mightily. We've been having curfew issues with Matt since he went off to college. He's an adult, self supporting and doesnt see a need for a midnight curfew anymore. It irks us to no end when he's out until 1-2 AM with his GF. We know he's not up to anything immoral.. they are hanging out at her house and her Dad is within earshot. But still, it's our rule and we expect him to abide by it. He hasnt been and I've been discussing it with him. H is at his breaking point with it. Matt doesnt see a GOOD reason for him to be home by 12, and it's hard for him to respect the rule because of that. We talked for an hour about it yesterday and didnt agree... and in the end, I had to use, this is our house, we have 4 kids to raise and just because you're responsible doesnt mean we can not expect you to follow the rule this time. He said he could understand if I was pacing and worrying until he comes home, but since I'm not, what's the big deal? He's being stubborn, and yet, he has a right to his opinion too. He spent the night at a friends last night and he's called twice this morning saying he'll be home. H has already asked where Matt is, and I know he's unhappy. But I think H and I approach this from a different perspective. He's having a REALLY hard time letting go of Matt, and I'm finding it much easier and enjoying watching him expand his horizons. H is trying to find any reason to exert his control over Matt's life when he's here and it's driving a wedge between them. He seems to resent any time Matt spends with his GF, and that's not good at all! I mean, I understand the house curfew, but I don't get where he can control how S19 spends his time.. especiall when it comes to his GF and his friends that he doesnt see enough as it is. H just seems jealous I guess, but doesnt plan things for him and S19 to do together.. so?? I'm dropping the rope on giving him advice on this issue too. It might get rough between them, but I've always played the referee and it's time to stop that too for both of them. H has a right to his feelings even if I think he's not being honest with how hard it is to let Matt go and that he misses him, and is instead just trying to control his time. Matt would definately respect and listen to his Dad's feelings and if he needs more time together, he'd do it. I've had times like that. Where I want time alone with my son, I miss him, I'm just having a hard time and when I tell him that, he's always sure to make a little time to hang out and talk. It helps so much more than arguing about where he's going and who he's with!

Thanks for listening.

Sheila