Bud,

Gosh, thanks for taking the trouble to cut and past from the previous thread! See how good I'm getting at dropping the rope and letting others do stuff for me?

not having to be right all the time
not searching for that something, whatever form it takes, to fill that emptiness we all feel from time to time
partner selection -- finding someone with whom we're good for each other (who pointed out the importance of that not too long ago? ) Have you started that book yet? I'm going to start a word file with all the MUST HAVE advice, and this is some of it. H told me that I have to always be right and of course I dont agree with that. Only when I know I'm right and therein lies the problem!

That emptiness.. what do you do with it? I was thinking about this while walking through our office complex after the gym last night. I thought about it on the 45 min ride home. It's the major reason I'm still with H I think. If not for that emptiness and knowing that I have a hard time staying there, I think this would have been over long ago. I mean, after we separated and D, I was dating within months and I wasnt ready. Heck, I'm more stable now than I was then but still, I worry that I'll start looking for that "something/someone" to fill me up again. I really like my time alone, but I don't like loneliness. And how could I be lonely with 4 kids anyway. It's that emotional connection and I'm staying in a R that's all but lost that connection entirely...I'm hanging on to a vapor here. So, I guess you're saying that emptiness is natural and we have to learn to live with it without letting it push us towards things that are just chosen because they ease the emptiness?

Someone with whom we're good for each other. Yeah, that goes into the book too. I guess that starts with becoming someone who's good for others in our life. You're well on your way to that BTW! Ya know, this is where my world fell apart I think. I strived so much to be good for my family (H especially) and when things fell apart I felt like I had given it my best and still wasnt good enough. Even after he left I tried to be that person for him and it was rejected. We've talked about this and he points a finger to his depression. Which is fine and good, but at some point I've decided if my best isnt good enough, then screw it, I'll do what I want until he decides to be good for me too. Probably not the brightest thing I've done because I don't like who I've become in our R. Knowing that I should (and I've said this many times) keep being the person I love and be good for him as a friend even if we can't have a R based on mutual good towards each other. Today was a step in that direction for me. Just deciding to call a truce and help the kids decorate the house and cook so he could enjoy the game was nice. I like the me that does those kinds of things and encourages the kids to be sweet to their Dad. They met him at the door yelling WAR EAGLE and he thought it was great. They had decorated the step rails with streamers and ballons and painted the storm door up... made orange and blue cupcakes and decorated the dining room. As we watched the game I looked at him and thought {I could really be his friend. We'd be good as friends. We can't seem to merge our individual values, needs and ideas into a M, but as friends we're fine} So today, after a phone convo along the same lines, but without specifics I decided Im definately not his wife anymore. We're not married, and we can't maintain this, so we're friends with kids right now. And yeah, I feel good about that, but there's and emptiness there.

But you always gotta keep in mind with me that I come from a very broken relationship Ditto!

So my plan is to find a good partner and tell her the ways I'm prone to screwing up. I'll ask her to please let me know when she sees me going down those roads. Test this plan thoroughly!! I've taken this approach with H thinking if I throw all of me out there, we can work things through together. Just make very sure that the other person is willing to throw their "stuff" in the mix honestly too. There is nothing more frustrating than wanting to meet someone's needs and love them and not have a clue where to start. It's also very frustrating to be an open book that no one's reading and to admit weaknesses that are used against you. I told H not long ago that I'm having a problem with anger and resentment. Asked him to bear with me, and that if I ask for space, I really need it so I don't vent on him. It wasnt long before he was pointing out my anger issues and blaming them for our problems, and he also hasnt given me space when I know what I'm dealing with is MY emotions that are irrational, angry, whatever emotion that I'm feeling but would like to protect him from.

W's anger was easy to understand but I just got defensive so it wasn't very useful to her. Other emotions always struck a nerve with me as being controlling. Like, "You say when I do this it makes you anxious...but I can tell you there's no reason for you to be anxious, so why don't you work on that? Why is your anxiety my problem?" But I'll never forget one of my books (and I remember which one, if you really want to know), at one point basically said, "If you expect your woman to handle all her emotions on her own, why does she need you?" Smart man. The defensiveness is the death of progress. There's no reason for you to be anxious and why is your anxiety my problem. You got it! If H (and he's said this!) knows in his heart/mind that I don't have a reason to worry, he sees no reason for him to try to protect me from that at all. In the convo I mentioned, I even said to him that I realize it's controlling and silly for me to ask him not to hang out with his friend, but could he bear with me because I was struggling. He created the sitch where I doubted what he's doing after work, and was suspicious of this friend, but still I realized that asking him to not spend time with that friend wasnt a long term solution. I was asking two things.. to not go out after work Mon-Weds until my doubts faded a little, and to introduce me to his friend. I was so hurt that he couldnt do that for me for a little while. Honestly, now I wouldnt blink an eye, so he wouldve had to forego that activity for a couple of months maybe, or less if I had met the guy. In the end, he's severed his ties to Shane. And that seems unreasonable to me.. he wasnt willing to work through the problem by not hanging out after work, but after I was hurt and angry, he's totally stopped hanging out with him, and I truly would never ask him to do that. So why is it now OK to give up a friend for me, but not OK then to just consider my needs at that point in time?

That's a helluva good idea, even if I was marrying an American! And I gotta be honest here...I love our Aussie chyx to death, but I don't know if I'm enough man for them. They might break me in half!
 I won't doubt your judgement, but I bet you are What a nice thought this is though. It would be great to see those of us who are struggling now in loving Rs in the future.

Are you right near DC? I ask because a former boss/friend works at Ft. Eustis. He lives in Williamsburg. Are you close? When he's in Huntsville he always invites me over visit, and with things the way they are, I've thought about making a long weekend trip. He was my boss through the D and he and his wife are absolute sweethearts. He's actually the person who mentored me toward the career I'm in, and he and his wife are great fun.

Long time getting to that idea. H has been sleeping upstairs again. We havent been getting along. More lies, finance, check stuff going on. I drew up our budget on paper, split it down the middle. H mentioned getting a joint account which scares the h*ll out of me. But what if we did that, we contributed equally to supporting the household (I pay the majority of the bills right now because I earn more), paid our bills out of that account and otherwise managed our money separately. I'd have a lot more left over than he would, and right now, he could do it, but still have some left over. I think his earnings are going to go up soon though when he goes to another job.. he went on a promising interview this week. I was thinking if we do this, he can learn to manage his money without putting is in a bad place. If he messes up, it doesnt affect the household. Any major purchases, financial decisions will directly affect both of us because we'd have to pay our fair share. He couldnt just decide to do something and not worry about where the money comes from and neither could I. And, he'd have independence from me questioning his spending and money managing skills, and so would I. I could save to my little hearts content, and I wouldnt have to deny myself because he's spending money without me knowing it and when I go to buy something, he's spent the funds for that new outfit (or whatever) after I brown bagged lunch for two weeks to afford it! Maybe it would encourage him to take advantage of his earning potential and strive to make more, or not according to his needs. He has opportunties to bring in extra money and doesnt do it sometimes because he knows my check is there to cover it. But truthfully, we could use the extra money because we drained our account when I was supporting the household without any money coming in from him. What do you think? Separate our lives as much as possible, but remain friends, work on ourselves and see what happens. Probably we'll go our separate ways, but in the meantime instead of warring through this, maybe this would ease the stress until he decides he's ready to move out on his own. I've asked him to do that, but he can't afford to right now, and like everything else, I'm going to have to wait until he's ready unfortunately.

Thanks so much for listening and maybe going blind from reading my posts. I realize I talked up my stuff on your thread awhile ago. I hope that's OK. You can do that anytime over here... I always find something helpful in your posts no matter where they are!

Sheila