Quote: ------------------------------------------ I don't want to start makingt remarks that she considers put downs. I want to be with some one that I respect. ------------------------------------------
An therein lies the rub.
"Wife, I am really having a hard time respecting you because of your spending habits. Would you be willing to work out a compromise with me so that I don't lose my respect for you?"
How's that?
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
"She had 6 cats, most peed on the carpet in the living area, 4 dogs-2 bit me and her several times, and 2 big messy/loud birds."
I know you probably don't think it is funny, but you just described a perfect scene for a National Lampoon movie. I can just see OG played by Chevy Chase standing there with an exasperated look on his face in a house full of peeing cats, biting dogs, and parrots that say "I'm never going back to work."
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
So, Lou, you will not separate your finances because you think, instead, you will change her to being a responsible spender? And if you don't, you will lose respect and/or love for her.
Quote: "Wife, I am really having a hard time respecting you because of your spending habits. Would you be willing to work out a compromise with me so that I don't lose my respect for you?"
The answer I expect will be. "It's all about you and I am tired of being controlled." or "We are two different people, I have my needs you have yours."
It is getting easier to state my wishes and opinions and not be so concerned about the outcome.
Saying I am really having a hard time respecting you is a step I will take.
Re Chrom
Quote: you just described a perfect scene for a National Lampoon movie. I can just see OG played by Chevy Chase standing there with an exasperated look on his face in a house full of peeing cats, biting dogs, and parrots that say "I'm never going back to work."
For 2 weekends and a week of evenings, I have been replacing, trim, the flooring and painting the walls and window frames inside and outside, in the master bedroom. I finished last evening.
Within a half hour “wiener boy” the dog that pees in the house the most, cames in the bedroom and pees on a tool I has sitting be the chest of drawers. I ask BB to look at a spot on the floor. She can’t see it so I said feel around here. BB is dense when it comes to her “little lover boy” doing anything wrong. BB almost put her hand on the wet spot but she saw it and stopped. She got a mop and wiped it up but I came behind her and finished the job by rinsing the area with a damp sponge.
Chrom, does that add anything to the movie? How about dried urine on a VCR that is beginning to look like it had yellow mayo on it at one time. My new (used) flat panel monitor was sticky and I had to clean “wiener boys” markings off of it too.
The dog is outside most of the day when the weather is nice, then he comes in and if he sees/smells anything new, he marks it with urine. I am not happy about the situation but I have been peed on before by our kids.
Re HP
Quote: "You do know that you can't change her, right
I know I can’t change her HP
Quote: So, Lou, you will not separate your finances because
I am letting this spending spree play out then going for the two separate accounts.
New bedroom furniture was delivered this AM. BB is one happy gal. I remain a working observer. If I said anything other that something complimentary, it would ruin BB happiness. I got a big hug from BB for working so hard.
Anyone want to wager how long it will take “wiener boy” to pee on the new furniture? To BB “wiener boy” is the cutest 18 lb Scottie she ever saw.
More trips to the donation store. Sex to night??????????????????????????? if I manage not to show my frustrations. Maybe I need to go shopping tonight.
Nop this part is not about me but I would like to know about you. I can imagine the frequency and EC is not going to increase much in general beyond short periods for most of the sex starved husbands here on the forum.
I have not read your old post pre Mrs. Nop cooperating or as she calls it being finally heard. One reason I am asking is because I suspect many of us digher drive people male and female will not make it across that being "heard" point. My question is mostly for the good of the group.
I was wondering how you would have felt or what you would imagine if your LM was frequency was only every two weeks. How would that NOP act, feel today? What would you keep doing, what would have benn an "I tried it and it did not work so i quit."
I know everyone is different but also realize there are things many people want and think many of our reactions to what does or does not happen will be similar.
Back to me: I don’t envision much change in frequency here in Lou land even with me staying out of BB’s spending/seperat accounts. I do see BB being happier and not so negative during sexual encounters. I don’t haven't decided if that will be good enough for me. Sometimes I wonder if I have unrealistic dreams about what I would like from the R with BB.
Answer as you feel is appropriate. The last thing I want to do is creat some tension in your M with Mrs. NOP. You are both valuable to the forum.
I interpreted your dream on the other thread a couple of days ago.
I presume because you are in C that BB is aware how unhappy you are? Have you considered laying all the cards on the table and saying 'I feel unloved, I am unhappy, I am thinking about D' and see what she thinks?? It might be a wake up call.
It's obvious to me that you don't know if you want her or not or if you're still in love. I think a lot of your negativity isn't so much about money or even sex, but your general feeling that whatever effort you make, she will not do the same and your belief that she won't ever change so you are toing and froing over whether you want a M with her and this is making you miserable.
I think once you've decided how to proceed, you'll feel better, either way.
The other idea I thought of is maybe have a long holiday just for you, like a month or something, just to chill out and relax and think about what you want to do. It'd give her chance to miss you, too, and she might make more effort.
You take a lot more than I can. If I had a dog peeing all over the house, that critter would be gone or dead. Living around animal pee and feces is absolutely disgusting and something I cannot envision. I know you don’t like it either, but why do you put up with it?
I think you put yourself in a no-win situation. You don’t like BB’s actions. She could give a flip whether you like her actions or not. She will do as she pleases and she does just that. You try to change who you are to trigger a change in her, as everyone on this board advises, but nothing happens. Why?
I think most people can be changed by changes in their spouse. But I also believe there are those who will not change, unless they are forced to. I think BB may be one of those. There have been a few times when you mention a change in her behavior, that she checks in on you, is worried about your feelings, feels distanced and wants to get closer. Each time this happened, it is because you put your foot down and forced the outcome. If you don’t do this, then nothing changes.
I don’t mean to offend you, but I get the feeling BB is …well, a little lazy and very selfish. Maybe that’s because she was spoiled as a kid, whatever. The fact is that she seems to have little personal motivation, except for spending. Each time she showed concern for you was when she became concerned for herself…. What will SHE do with your business if you don’t come back from your trip, what will SHE do if the electricity goes out in a storm, what will SHE do if you move out of the house. My point is that some people will not do ANYTHING until they HAVE to, even if they knew in their heart that a certain action is for their own good. If things are too comfortable, they will just not do anything.
I refer to people like this as having the “welfare” mentality. They can work, are physically able to do so, but for the difference in extra income they could gain by working 40 hours a week, it just isn’t worth it. They would rather sit around and wait for their welfare check. When state governments started cutting back on welfare payments, all of a sudden these “disabled” people were getting jobs. Not because they wanted to but because they had to. I see BB as having this same mentality. You keep making things too easy for her. Again, I don’t mean to insult BB in any way, but I see this similarity.
Is see the DB techniques only working on people who have some motivation for improvement with themselves and their lives. They are still engaged and are trying to work things out in their own way. So a change in one partner causes changes in another. But if one person is happy with the way things are, I think the other can make all the changes in the world and the person will just sit in their chair and keep doing what they want until they can’t do it anymore. And if they are forced into action, they will take the easiest action possible to settle things down enough to get back in their chair. Giving these people positive choices does not work. Sometimes negative incentive is all they understand.
Why don’t you just tell her she IS going to a counselor, and to one of YOUR choosing. That she IS going to keep attending sessions and listening to what the counselor says. If she says no, then tell her adios. By all indications, she will panic. And so what if she does? Have you ever laid down the law with her?
I think you are afraid of doing so because you are afraid she will be mad at you. Let her be mad, but also know you are mad at her and you have your limits. Maybe this isn’t the “right thing” to do, but I wonder if maybe your insistence on doing the “right thing” is insulting to BB, since she obviously knows that you think she is not doing the “right thing” and she passive-aggressively rebels against you. This is juvenile behavior. How would you handle a child acting like this?
RE Cobra -------------- If I had a dog peeing all over the house, --------------- "Weiner boy" marks new things in the house. It happens a couple times a month. Outside he pees on top of other dog pee spots.
--------------- Living around animal pee and feces is absolutely disgusting and something I cannot envision. I know you don’t like it either, but why do you put up with it? ------------------ The cats got too much for me so I paid the animal rescue league $100 to find a home for one cat that was doing the most peeing in the house. The two followers died of natural causes with in 6 months. Feces only happens if some pet is sick. BB is one of those people where some pets come before family members.
--------------------- You try to change who you are to trigger a change in her, as everyone on this board advises, but nothing happens. Why? ----------------------- Changes are happening but very slowly.
------------------- What will SHE do with your business if you don’t come back from your trip, what will SHE do if the electricity goes out in a storm, what will SHE do if you move out of the house. My point is that some people will not do ANYTHING until they HAVE to, even if they knew in their heart that a certain action is for their own good. If things are too comfortable, they will just not do anything. I refer to people like this as having the “welfare” mentality. people were getting jobs. Not because they wanted to but because they had to. --------------------- I agree some people only do what they have to do. Path of least resistance.
---------------------- Why don’t you just tell her she IS going to a counselor, and to one of YOUR choosing. Have you ever laid down the law with her? --------------------- Tell a mental health worker they are going to a C?????? I have to figure out if I can pull that off without screwing it up. Choose your battles type of thing. If she would go would it be in body only but not in spirit?
-------------------- I think you are afraid of doing so because you are afraid she will be mad at you. -------------------- At first I was concerned she was going to be angry but now I don't care as much what her reaction is. I don't go out of my way as much anymore to avoid conflict, which leads to conflict. I don’t want to be in a R with someone that sees C as a forced issue. Too many passive aggressive outcomes. BTDT.
-------------------------- How would you handle a child acting like this? --------------------------- That [is] one of our negative dynamics now Cobra. BB frequently tells me I am acting like her dad. I don’t want another child. I want a partner.
End of Cobra reply
After the new furniture was set up (BB was zoned out like she was on a presidential mission for the previous week) around 2PM on Wednesday , an attitude switch flipped. BB all of a sudden was paying attention to what I was doing. It was almost like her being returned from an alien abduction.
Most of last week I was trying to get BB to see the progress of the improvements to the bedroom. All she was talking about were the things that were not finished or how the old furniture was going to fit in the other bedroom and the problems she would have with that situation
I was saying things like ”The walls look nice” and she would say “yes but the trim is not in place.” I even said she should compliment or thank me for what had been done so far. Back to the 2PM switch flip.
BB said she was sorry for acting so self centered and started to say how happy she was with the work that was done and for making one of her wishes come true. I was thinking some of the compliments I was giving myself the day before and modeling for her, the idea was taking hold.
BB took me out to dinner and was all touchy feely for the rest of the evening. We even had sex and she seemed to be there mentally. No “I am too old for this stuff” moans or eye rolls.
On 11/24/05 she was happy all day and worked most of the day on the family Thanksgiving dinner food items and set up. I helped.
11/25/05 the cheery BB is fading.
What am I doing? I am working and throwing some things away.
BB is a spoiled child and "she is not going to change" unless something drastic happens (you leave, you die of exhaustion, etc). I feel sorry for her, actually. Imagine if the only happiness you found had to be bought.
Lou, I agree with someone who posted above. Set a time limit for yourself regarding how much longer you're willing to stay in the R with no change and then leave if there are no changes.
To BB “wiener boy” is the cutest 18 lb Scottie she ever saw.