another thread another opportunity another insight

[blackfoot]

HP,

No not suprised at all. Probably why I vented on her, another test to see if she was really done or not. major push/no returning pull.
I have no doubts she was/is in love with him in some fashion. He is very attractive. when he massed mailed their R mementos she said 'he must be in a lot of pain' of course when I got upset prior to that, I was a axxhole. Whatchagonnado.
my reason for throwing in the towel is as I have stated around here about biological male value. women dont leave a man that has it. I dont for her. Fine. good luck.

There was no rejection during my EA, which it wasnt. I took no resources and gave them to OW. I was infatuated and in lust. It was completely internal/ or at least unverbalized on my part. I know danger of declarations. No rejections of x. Yes she felt it. You dont have to tell me about sensitivity especially hers, good for other guys to hear though. I was in MC wreck once before and she told her mom something was wrong and then called me as I was walking in the door. She would wake up and wake me up before earthquakes. Roll your eyes, disbelieve, its true, I dont care there were others between us and still have been the past few months, but I have proved my point already or appear a liar.

Ditto with the OM living in your house and then your subsequent rejection of her when you noticed her attachment forming. (which you now seem to think she should dissolve like Drano on a sink clog--doesn't work that way)

I didnt reject her. Look at my actions when we got there. Well you dont know them but she does and agreed in hindsight during reconcil. UNTILL I cut her off after she responded to OM overtures.
as for dissolving R I had three girlfriends when I met her. If that makes me a player fine. Sue me. I still know attraction. and woman code. Dissolved them in less then 3 weeks/ less then 2 meetings. When infatuation with my PA happened I cut it off like pulling batteries out of a flashlight, one day energy, the next a useless lightbulb. and still had to work with her every day for months. I was polite, short, professional, abrupt. NO humor no macho. x was not taking care of my 'needs' - ala Dr Harley during this time. (Didnt know of it yet) So what that wasnt in the vows. Divorce her (yea I thought about it for a week, travel the world with OW, working for studio, tons of money, everything provided for, no commitments, job I loved, responsibility, danger, knowledge that OW was psych broken, IMO making me feel good but it wouldnt last. Since I am broken too and I screwed up M, guess I should have. Saved W from my Narcissim.)

or work thru the bad spot, focus on the good look to the future, work on plans made. Not Fcuk her over, and treat her callously.

WHY did you allow OM into your home? Have you asked yourself this question?
lets see.... everyday for the past.... 20 months? multiple times. why, why, why, I was doing him a favor, maybe help him with drugs, depression, it was convenient since I moved there 2 months before she did, he 'needed' a place too, he makes 90 Gs a year but was sleeping under friends kitchen table. NO I didnt stutter. (This by the way was admirable because he sacrificed so much for the things he attained because of it. savings account. her words after A) and my favorite, it shouldnt have mattered. I should be able to go and take my wife anywhere and count on her. I didnt cut her off untill she reacted to him. She traded in everything, for one thing although she is mistaken on that too. So he was right, I was wrong, women will throw everything away for there feelings. No offense to those of you here not like that. I know and you know who you are.

He has some issues, hooker using coke head being one developed after I met him, but so do I, as Nop is pointing out and I need to go address. (friend choosing was one of them. No longer.) my beliefs and actions are not affected by those around me very much. We still had a lot of commonality, and ties from business, career things. Peer pressure has meant nothing to me since early teens. My life experiences will do that to you. Graduated at 14, teachers fawning, special classes, awards blah blah blah, constant testing not just on paper, adults and stepdad too, kids competing, everytime I turn around another competition. If I was succesful, hohum, if I wasnt the world was in turmoil. head taller then everyone close to my age around me untill going to college at 16. at 21 said forget this went to AK. Its peaceful and quiet 20-60 feet down.

I'm not trying to be harsh, hope it doesn't come off that way It doesnt, I got a good feel for you HP. Harsh away, like I said noone can harsh me harder then I have myself. Maybe one of the harshes will help me figure out why I did this, and if I can stop it.

Hope yours is getting better each day. Today was a bad day. associative triggers... thanks though.

Two people who are an electric match for each other IMO I did all the R work, untill I didnt. I kept things going, she has even bitched during our Reconcil you always do 'the right thing, your so fcuking psych. healthy'. Whatever, not true, but whatever, thats a bad thing? When I vented and berated which wasnt, she left. Go figure. Fell down in mud reached up for a hand found self on own again. poor me. blech. getting off the pity pot now, grabbing boot straps, counting on noone but me again.

Well except for people here. Not really counting but glad for the helping hand, it was either this or self destructive dating with messed up females. I stay away from the healthy ones, the 'nice girls'. Tend to fall in love with them.

So, anyways, I really trully appreciate it. Hope I have been of some help, despite Naricissm and playerness.

[blackfoot]

well LFL.

I cant do this anymore. I think you want your M to work. People here are willing to help you. I cant continue this cyber R with you anymore in this fashion though. I am sorry about this, but its not nice, and I am doing things to you just to prove a point, that you are not seeing and stepping right in every time. I dont want to compete, outwit outlast whatever. See post above on competition. also read ebook on women men love and never want to leave.

I didnt do it to be spiteful, there are things about you I like, and I know your pain and fear of your M current standing. So first a remark to one of your previous comments, and then I will point out what I did that you stepped in and didnt see. It will prove your opinion that I am cold, callous and aloof. I didnt want it to be like this though.

You called me a cold beer that women will slam. You are correct. Women see me this way and treat me this way repeatedly. In particular married women. I am not a player, my limited foray into sexual promiscuity turned my stomach in my late teens. I do enjoy showing, giving women a good time when I go out, or they come to 'my place'- as I am tending bar again with my old acquaintences- my attempt at GAL and avoiding empty home. I know how to do so, make them feel good, have a good time, it makes me very valuable to my friend/ side gig employer. I come and go as I please there, and get fed and watered very well. I have very unorthodox, yet rigid rules with myself about non marital sex though.

Married women assume I am a player, blatantly proposition me, think I would enjoy being slammed like cold beer, and turn my stomach. Some pretend to not be married, or try to hide it. So I act like myself, untill it happens, then I pull out my magicians wand or have to act the opposite. If the are single it takes a few dates to ascertain certainly.

Here I acted the opposite, and explained it, like I have with attraction.

The first time was when I asked for Joharis window help last week. I gave up my power. I even worded it as being needy. I made it a subtle warning. You immediately, gleefull set about putting me in my place with with a smack down of things that werent true about me but were somewhat true about my x again. I have told you before I like your emotionality, but your projections of me are not correct. we think nothing alike. I understand yours and sympathize with you having been WA from. It hurts and your feel powerless and helpless. I know.

Lesson learned for men- never give up your power when a woman doesnt respect you, never appear needy, even then, dont do it often. I am just a cold beer to slam, not respectable.

Next you bashed my macho manliness when I 'gave it up' asking for a womans help early this morning on this thread. I even said I was doing it. I was intentionally killing attraction. Beta'izing myself to your H. I was not inciting them to attack you, though, just reaffim me on stepping down the testing. I did mess up when I put a name in though.
I apologize Karen.

I dont know if you do this to your H but if so, it becomes very very tiresome for a man. He does not want to compete with his W.

I did this because I think of you as a friend. Someone who has helped me see into my x. I wanted to do the same for you and your H. But you ran off before we got to that part. and couldnt seem to get back too it, I am guessing because it is a powerless, scary, topic to look inside and see That we have been abandoned-- for you for unknown reasons.

This post from you was not thread litter, it was on topic. Your nervous and I am not communicating to you well. You are seeing the obvious and not the subtle.
my thought on not posting to women anymore is because I have been watching the Nops, and see what they do around here, or rather dont do, I respect it. Their ethics floor me. I get flabbergasted by it. I get ashamed of my own actions in comparison sometimes. I dont like that. So since I proved my attraction points all ready, I think I can stick to talking to men about their sitch, and stop talking about my personal details... soon. Its not relevant to application or success.

I didnt want it to be like this, I thought you would see my obvious beta'izing, depreciating, etc, that I warn men away from. Especially since stigmata has been pointing out my indirect references also.

I hope this isnt too bitter medicine. and you can find your way to seeing a couple lumps of sugar to help it go down.


I would be happy to have an arranged marriage LOL. That's a good one, considering your previous lists of "musts" on a woman

I would. the love that comes over time thru mutuall respect and 'playing your role' is much more genuine and real IMO then the fireworks of lust, romance, and attraction. The temporary loss of which I see as being the primary reason for D in our society.

My pesos worth.

[blackfoot]

Nop.

Thank you.

1 is hard,

2 has become overemphasized here, trying to remove now.

3 yes, thank you.

4 yes, trying to avoid all Rs. for that long. no sex for 18 months? !!

[Dmsw4]

As long as we're voicing our opinions...some people come here for real help, introspection, etc. Others come here just to validate themselves, feel better, justify their actions. I don't think you're the latter...I think you've been really looking for answers, but getting bombarded by those that are here just looking for attention. You have a right to not respond, ya know?

[LustForLife]

Sorry to offend BF. Was just playing around with you(thought you were too) but guess it went too far. I understand you want "serious" BF to shine so I will stay out of your spotlight. Au revoir mon ami.

[honeypot]

Blackfoot,
Fwiw, I never regarded you as a player. I do regard you as a bit too serious but I also take into *major* account the fact that you are going through a divorce.

I think you like to tease and mess around with people but I doubt that trait is limited to the female sex.

Enjoy your time here. The NOP's both have killer senses of humor and have both waylaid me at times with their wit. Find happiness and laughter where ever you can.

Best,
Honey

[Stigmata]

I let x go alone to another city to help OM find an apt. every weekend. It also didn't help that I trusted to a fault. She began violating my boundaries and I didn't put a stop to it for fear of looking insecure and losing her. I became weakened and my subsequent tight leash paranoia inability-to-process-A reactions exacerbated this weakness

Well you get it, Fear led you to doing the exact wrong thing. Becoming major wussyman.
--Guilty as charged. I still cannot believe how much power I willingly gave away. x's F friends fed my errant ego, ie, "a real keeper" and I duped myself. I gave up my ID in favor of catering to x's. A spineless "yes-dear." x seeking/perhaps has found stronger male via business networking is gut feeling.
the question is do you want to do anything about it, and can you control yourself, fear, insecurity, leaning psycologically,(if I put an [H] in that word one more time I am going to rip my finger off....need to go type psych 1000 times....) and with body language,(no leaning) as-if OM, enforce boundaries without hesitation,showing displeasure and disapproval without emotion i.e. anger, and be cocky sincere, and humorously macho. Lots of humorously macho....
--I feel like I'd been standing in front of a swanky club and the door man took one look and tossed me to the curb. OM strolled right in with swagger. Wake up call to return myself to "stroll right in" M at beginning of R. Need to be OM if new R is to begin...which is long way off IMO. Reaching 40 days/40 nights apart/LRT and it seems like 40 months already. Not sure I can Ark myself against the Deluge of DB E rollercoaster.

At least I now know what I need to do even if I end up in new R with another F. Humorously macho. Humorously macho. Yes. Fs want to feel good/laugh. Endorphin release. Macho kicks in Fs' innate virility search.
Those are the questions. I gave it whirl, messed it up (maybe) with road to intimacy potholes, maybe found out there wasnt true remorse.... Is your WAS 2 times with same OM also? I look (almost) at everyone of my failures as really a opportunity to see how much x cared for me. I know how I overlooked her 'failures'.
--Also not sure of true remorse. I completely botched response vis-a-vie consequences. Stayed. Yelled. Raged. Berated. Then ML intensely. Had to leave. Should have left. Go dark. Make her feel my cutting her out of my life. Argh. Again, afraid she would just run off to OM. Where was my self-respect? Milquetoast.

OM. Not sure if he's back. At this point, there may be multiple OMs over years? My R gyroscope is spinning wildly at this point. x is secretive type. Locks down her comp. with multiple passwords. Mine wide open.

--But the A with OM was same exact age as your x= 27. Not sure with Fs, but most males, almost to the year, become schizophrenic at age 28. Not to say xs are schizo. Just wondering about that age and brain chemistry.
When you get around her, phone or in person those chemicals make it hard to lean back. If you are doing this out of neediness you wont be able to. Think about what your reasons are for it. Your internal reasons will show thru every time. If it is to assuage your ego, forget it, let her go. If it is to test out your new found knowledge, forget it let her go. If you think you cant find another, forget it let her go.
--No person-person contact. 1 instigated phone call about her health, which was returned. Still very dim/dark. Only respond when x initiates. Now noticing she is further detaching maybe.

Ego assuage: partially, yes. Not good.
Test: partially. Not good.
Finding another: Know I can. So far off scope though as my GAL needs major, major overhaul which only comes with time. If x moves on with new R quickly (wouldn't surprise me), cutting losses.
I loved my x, I am gonna stand here like the crag I am and find out if she loves me. I am waiting to see desire, remorse, and change. Right up untill I get my POP. If I have value it will overcome female initiation reluctance. If I dont.... I dont. I will do the 'right thing', but I wont be addicted to my struggle.
--Good 4 U. "Loved", not "love"? If past tense, let her go. I'm still in present tense but it is starting to dim while past tense brightens. That's my biggest problem with DBing. Perilously close to "passive pining." I won't allow self to do that. Life dishes out enough pain. I don't need to take knife and cut arms beneath the dinner table to feel more.
making my Stigmata wounds open up and bleed for real this time
not useful if you want to go get her. In sales there is a idea called Speed of Implementation. The most succesful people are able to take a new idea and immediately put it too use. Most people want to mull and chew and tentatively put a toe in the water. Sticking a knife in the wound to explore the pain is not helpful.
--Yes, good point. However, there is also the #1 cardinal rule of sales: Love/Believe in Your Product/what you are selling. I don't know if I believe in the Product (new R) anymore--thus, my waffling.
GAL. NOW. GAL is highly important to attraction anyways. Flex some figurative muscle and make some explorations out of your Intro. flex some real muscle too.
--GAL is key to my plight. Am considering Vitamin P but I am leary of psychotropics and big pharma studies. Afraid of losing embracing highs and lows. SJWort seemed to take edge off though.

BTW, drinking. I only had 2 beers other night when I thought I wanted more. Didn't. Old defense mechanism that doesn't work anymore it seems. Realized drinking alone to stupor is counterproductive to GALing, which must take top priority ASAP.

--Lost 25 lbs of muscle during R and 2 jacket sizes. Stopped the free weight routine. Girly man now. Need to climb the mountain again. Stress over WA/LB however has wiped out any BMI/body fat concerns, though. Still metabolizing at 20-something pace.


(nice tie-in eh?) yes but if you point it out I cant....
--See Chrome? Could have been deprecatory. Chose self-congratulatory arrogance instead. Mmmmm...atraaaactive.
oh yeah I am not sure how I feel about your dissembling of my comments.... I like it when you further detail and expound for the benefit of the men, I get busy/lazy and dont always give reasons, but on my subtle pokes....mmm not so sure.
--Yes. I agree. Getting little weary of dissembling the little stuff. Holding magnifying glass over others seems ridiculous esp. since I am a complete R mess.

Ibiza is in Spain so I didnt miss the latinos, and my x was Pacific Islander, (talk about a passionate FOO ... whew) often mistaken for Asian, I used to call her my 'Ornamental' when she got dressed up, LMAO....

--Ah, now you're making me wish I were Fletcher Christian. Shame on you for that. [looking around...holding torch to "The Bounty"]

. you missed the primary poke anyways, maybe on purpose, Good. I was pretty pleased with that one it encompassed about 4 references. Thanks for defending my depth, though it assumes I care what women think.......stop trying to wussify me.
--Yes, wussified myself plenty already; don't need to turn the "player" into the "played." LOL.
Caring what others thought (women) is why I am writing on R disaster message boards instead of romancing my WA x.

-Stigmata-

[Stigmata]

Blackfoot,

The 3 GFs before meeting x. Those in serial or parallel? And if parallel dating all 3 were they all physical Rs? And did they know of each other's existence?

As much as I would like to have a harem in my dreams perhaps, I am intensely loyal to one F at a time.

A triumvirate sounds both dangerous and a massive headache to me. Plus, I cannot EC with more than 1 F simultan.

-Stigmata-

[Stigmata]

I would be happy to have an arranged marriage LOL. That's a good one, considering your previous lists of "musts" on a woman

I would. the love that comes over time thru mutuall respect and 'playing your role' is much more genuine and real IMO then the fireworks of lust, romance, and attraction. The temporary loss of which I see as being the primary reason for D in our society.

My pesos worth.

---

--This last peso is worth a few thousand to me. (and maybe since we're talking about arranged Ms it should be "rupee?" ) I believe in this also and it would seem my x believes in the inverse.

Got the boot after all these years because she no longer "feels the butterflies" like at beginning of R. I don't think it coincidence this statement was made during new exposure to complimentary/flattering D alpha males in far away cities. Wants lust, romance back. I became the Beta, tending to my acts of service and comfort-making. I lose. Every time.
Going to set hard deadline for DBing while challenging other alphas en route to becoming one again myself. Not going to twist the knife in my gut longer than nec.

World is 52 percent Fs, 48 Ms. Odds in my favor. And BFs...and other wounded Ms. Ain't over till it's over in our broken Rs but we'll survive when it is.

--At least that's what I keep telling myself at this early stage. Argh. The way I'm feeling right now I may hold myself to the promise of not making more than 100 posts on this site. Feeling that itch to buy one-way plane ticket to Neverland again.

-Stigmata-

[blackfoot]

Mellanie
yes, I could simply not respond. I take that route after saying that I am taking that route. I give everyone a chance, or two, then I call what I see and deal with it. I am open to being wrong, but it happens so rarely....

the tests that come from the naysayers, and the attention seekers is part of proof of attraction, and the way it is dealt with can either prove attraction or prove you dont know cr^p. The way people responded to my joharis window request tells me wayyy more about how they see me, and how they are as a person, then the words do. Layers under layers.

This board has added so much to my understanding of women and their needs in a M. I have attraction down, but it isnt enough for a long term R/M. I had some things wrong, undoubtedly still do, and my own issues to work on as well that will surface in response to a different R with a different W. I do not need to waste my lifes time making the same mistakes twice though. I believe life throws the same problem at you over and over untill you die, it breaks you, or you solve it, whence it hands you another.

LFL,

<beating my head on wall> <thumping slows, and stops> said it before you can not offend ME. period. serious BF bores me. teasing flirty single!!(why is he here? yes I care what people think ABOUT THIS, HERE) BF gets bad rap on marriage board. NO. (I am so marriage positive, there is probably a pysch term for it. divorceaphobia. I hate affairs, I hate divorce. ) seeking fine line. BF hates/loves spotlight. see youth reference want to run away with marbles now, but not attractive, therefore not allowable, bad example. . I have something to offer, I believe. I didnt go to all the effort to drag you back here, and yes I did plot and plan that, (did I mention enjoyment of WeiQi? Thanks for the help my minion GEL <snicker>) to have it end all weird. I probably could have come up with a better response yesterday, but I am wiped from being in manic stage just prior to Dday. Got grumpy handed out a spanking. Candle is being burned on both ends, x speaks to me in my dreams, cant sleep, and puddle of wax grows. set trap, point at trap, youngest of 6 steps in anyway. written communication skills falter. Im just a uneducated blue collar simple kinda guy.

TRUCE. mi amigo. I really sincerely hope you see how women fall into this 'trap' with their H's though when the H's unintentionally act like I 'acted'. Because I care.

<Gruff voice> 'nuff said. all this R talk makes me uncomfortable....

HP

thanks for the slack, and the advice. so ...
My eyes are not little, or filthy. I am squeaky clean.

Little red daughter pot at 18> my what big eyes you have
BF the wolf> the better to see you with
Little red daughter pot at 18> My what a big toungue you have....
BF the wolf> the better to.....



by all means, run for the hills, just bring her with you. Ill be waiting. Muua ha ha haaa. My eyes may be clean but my mind is not.