Actually I didn't understand it at all. That's probably my problem then. Maybe I should become the buyer... except her product (emotional disconnection and celibacy) is not one I particularly want to buy. SD
Cobra, at Ł40 per hour ($70) 8 sessions was too many for my finances. I sold my old sports car to pay for them and it wasn't worth it. Sorry but I think a cruise around the world would do far more than a year of councelling for the same money. SD
Well I certainly don't want to usurp Corri's point, but I would just say that I think what she is getting at is that sex, EC, whatever is not something that you should try to acheive by doing lots of things for the person. That attitude can get you in a rut. The better attitude is to simply do things for the person because you love them, not because you expect love in return. Again it is that darn expectation thing again. You should expect that in a healthy relationship there is sex, EC, etc., but you shouldn't expect specific actions from specific actions. I will say though if your S is not returning love (hopefully by speaking your LLs), then you should question the health of the relationship, and in extreme cases whether it needs to be terminated.
I guess what I am trying to say, is I wouldn't like the reverse. I would not like for my wife to give sex to me in expectation that I will do something later for her (clean the house, do the dishes, etc.) I want sex from her to be an expression of her love for me. Ideally I would like her to want me, but even if she is just doing it because she knows that is what I want would be a very positive thing. Lots of EC. Am I making any sense? Can you see how the whole buying/selling thing you mention is connected? I just don't see that as a very healthy way to treat each other. Maybe I'm just farting against the wind though.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
I disagree that running away is a better fix. At $70/hr, your counseling sessions are relatively cheap. It is all a matter of priorities. I find it hard to believe you can’t cough up $70 every two weeks.
Look at it this way, if your two get divorced or separated, its going to cost you a lot more that that. I don’t know your situation with kids or the UK’s child support laws, but if you have to pay support, you’ll have even less money after the split.
Chromo,
I also disagree that termination of the marriage is in order here. My reasoning is that SD’s wife seems to me to be very “sick.” I think that if she could change, she would change. But like I have argued before, this may be something that needs to be “forced.” The arguments that people will only change when they are ready to change does not make sense to me in all situations. When someone is so dysfunctional, has so strong defenses, is so deluded by their false self, no manner or amount of change on the part of the spouse will create a change in them.
I know many say that the change of the “healthier” spouse will cause the mix in the pot to differ, thus causing the other to change. But how many times have we seen this not work? I think these failures are due in part to the “more” dysfunctional spouse not being able to understand and appreciate the changes made by their spouse. They are too deeply entrenched in their FOO (yes, I believe it comes back to that bird again, especially in these cases).
I believe there is a more consistent track record of change occurring in people who come to understand and deal with their FOO, so that the changes in their spouse and the resulting relationship mix, can allow a change in them. FOO and behavioral change go hand in hand.
So I believe your further comments about expecting sex in exchange for other services is a moot point for SD. I don’t think he (and possibly Hairdog and Zbube) have waives that are capable of making the needed changes at this point, even if they wanted to. Their FOO based defenses and underlying fears will sabotage any efforts they make.
Sorry, I did not mean to imply that I thought SD should or should not divorce. I was speaking in general terms.
You are probably right that the FOO-FOO bird gets in the way of the process of R healing in many cases. No matter what the S that is trying to repair the R does to themselves, the person with serious FOO issues may never be able to change without some sort big event or long-term work. I'd say if my case had been reversed, if my W was trying to repair our R and I was the one not seeing the problem, then my long-term battle with low self-esteem would have probably made it very difficult for her to do that. And maybe, my W has low self-esteem that will make it difficult for us to repair our marriage without she gets help. I don't know.
But one thing is for sure, fixing yourself is a good thing, whether or not in the end the R is fixed. Although the process is slow, I can feel a big difference already in how I view myself. I am fighting a constant battle against self-deprication, but it is getting easier. And no, I don't see any major changes yet in my M. But the self-improvement is beneficial irregardless. KWIM?
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
I posted a response on your thread about your first two points with your self esteem counselor. I hope you add more, since this a subject I need to work on myself. This is also why I follow Blackfoot's comments so closely. I'd like to keep up with your progress.
I have to agree with my W that councelling is a waste of time. I suppose it's our British stiff upper lip. You guys are better than any councellor. I have absorbed all you are saying about EC and that is the approach I will take from now on. On Friday (the only day we can discuss R issues) I think I will explain that I would like to work towards EC and that sex is something that should just happen because of the mutual love between us and not something that we need to make an appointment for. SD
Quote: think I will explain that I would like to work towards EC and that sex is something that should just happen because of the mutual love between us and not something that we need to make an appointment for.
