Of course, the pisser is that there is very likely NOTHING we can do to change anything about this. It's up to them to figure it out. And all we can change is our attitude. Sigh.
I disagree that there is nothing you can do. For some situations, I think DB techniques are the way to go. But for this, both you and ZB have been DBing for a while with little to nothing to show for it. Why? I think the issues are too deeply ingrained, that your wives’ behaviors are so set, that their walls and blinders are so strong that simply acting differently will not bring them to any realization.
That is where a good qualified, experienced therapist can help. The task you have is finding a way to get them in counseling and to stay there. For extremely psychotic people, the law permits a spouse to “commit” the other for a short period of time to evaluate the need for medical attention. I am not condoning this action, but that is an extreme example of how you can try to “force” change for someone too sick to help themselves.
In your case, waiting for your wife to realize she needs to rise to a higher, healthier level as you improve yourself, may take forever. As much as she would like everyone to think she can carry the weight of the world, she really can’t. Life on her own would mean dropping a lot of the things she has in the air. She may not be able to realize this until she has to – i.e., on the threshold of divorce.
I believe my wife came to this realization over the course of this year and has dropped some of the things she has tried to keep afloat. This transferred some responsibilities over to me, which frustrated me, but liberated me. It also liberated her. And it let her see that life goes on as usual even though she did not directly control everything (especially regarding the kids) and then she started to see that some of her past fears were due to her issues only.
I don’t have any magic book on this, but I think a lot of people who disregard the FOO content of their problems are doing themselves a disservice. Just my take.
Cobra: As my MC once said, "your W is like a freight train going down an arrow straight track. All you can do is be a persistent wind and be patient." She has definitely made some changes over the past few months. Although sometimes I think electroshock therapy might be quicker, I am a patient man.
You are right on the money(for many LD's). My wife has a big fear of intimacy. She would never admit this though. She grew up in a completely dysfunctional setting, and it has screwed her up as an adult. Relationships require complete vulnerability, and LD's are never the vulnerable ones in a relationship, they have all the power. Being HD is extremely vulnerable as you face CONSTANT rejection. My wife LOVES to be in control of EVERYTHING in her life. She ends up doing a million things, and yet NONE of hese things will actually contribute to her marriage. I suspect that many LD's are this way, busier then h#ll, and yet all the things that they consider "important" will do virtually nothing to help their marriages. In a typical day, my wife will be busy till she goes to bed, and yet, not one single thing that she did during the day will meet ANY of my needs, but I bet she THINKS she met a need of mine in there. Is this something eles that LD women seem to fail at, they can not prioritize what is truly important? Seems that way in my case.
I really hope what you just said was a vent for this board and not something you actually say to your wife. No matter how right you may be about your M situation, if you say something like that, with that tone, I'll bet you'll just get a "well if you are going to be that way about it, screw you" response everytime. Can you see how in your W's eyes, such a statement comes off sounding like a 3-year-old throwing a temper tantrum. I'm not trying to belittle you or say you are wrong about your wife. I just hope you have a better way of phrasing your complaints. Just my two cents.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Being HD is not extremely vulnerable unless you are sharing intimate details about how desire and sexuality affect you as a human. Unless, you are owning your sexuality and not using it to blame her.
Being HD can also be used as a shield. You can use sexuality to deflect your parnter from getting to know you. You can use sexuality to shame your partner.
You have yet to really share specifics about your W, your R, your situation or your efforts at talking to her or improving things. Cemar, at this point I think you use your HD as a method to show that you are "right" and she is "wrong" because "everyone" knows that sex is an important part of marriage. Yes it is and it isn't the only part. Quit using your sexuality as a shield for your own fears and inadequacies. Quit honing in on her fears and inadequacies.
Cally, How do I get past being told she doesn't fancy me. I guess a combination of denial and hope. HD is a sales job. For every sale you get ten knock backs. We are constantly trying to sell ourselves by improving the product and giving inducements (quality time, gifts and acts of service) in the hope that our customer will bite occasionally. LD is the buyer in a buyers market. Fending off the HD for as long as possible to get the best deal for the least cost.
WildeZBube, You and me are brothers. It seems we married twin sisters!
Cobra, We actually tried MC a couple of years back. We had 8 sessions with an organisation called "Relate" (it used to be "The marriage guidance council"). I found it useful and was able to pour out my heart to the C with no trouble at all but W just stonewalled her and described it as the worst experience of her life. So I don't think we will be doing that again.
SD - I like the idea of committing her. For you Texans: "You been drinkin' again Sue-Ellen?" "I’m committing you to the sanatorium".
Quote: In a typical day, my wife will be busy till she goes to bed, and yet, not one single thing that she did during the day will meet ANY of my needs, but I bet she THINKS she met a need of mine in there.
That she said it was a terrible experience speaks loud and clear the amount of stuff she has buried. I doubt 8 sessions is anywhere close to enough. I would think a year at the minimum is needed. She might have to go alone for most of those sessions to open up to the counselor. Since she needs to work on her issues, you don't really need to be around, and being there probably makes her clam up.
But your attendance either jointly, or in your own private sessions, may be needed to induce her to go. Her clamming up is evidence of how defensive she is about discussing her issues, so I think you should avoid making her feel like the focus of the needed therapy. She probably has a lot of shame surrounding this too, so you need to tread lightly, but I would push for the counseling an not stop until she agrees to attend. I think it could be that important.
