Thankyou to everyone who posted for me. I am feeling really low today because a lot of bad things have happened all at once - even my laptop computer with my whole life of work on it has crashed on me. Hairdog you know me better than that. I have never hit her or abused her in any way - argued certainly but she gives as good as she gets. NOP, I knew she didn't fancy me before the wedding but my love for her was so overwhelming that I had no doubt we'd get it back because she had so many worries at the time such as her dad being ill. The wedding night rejection was a serious blow that I have never really got over. The only relationship she had before me was for about 18 months and was with my best friend. I had fancied her for some time and when they split up I was delighted when she showed an interest in me. She told me that he told her that she was "no good in bed" - a warning I should have paid more attention to - but I was very inexperienced and didn't really know what sex was about anyway. When we started ML I didn't think she was "no good" at first anyway. I fell for her so completely that I asked her to marry me after only three weeks and she accepted (we didn't get formally engaged for another 2 years though). I feel like I have the most wonderful woman in the world who I still love just as much as I did then and although she is right here living with me I don't really have her at all. I don't know what the American word for "Fancy" is but here it means that you "Have the Hots". I have been thinking about it and I remember having a girl friend who really had the hots for me but I felt nothing for her. She would have done anything for me I'm sure but when W came onto the scene I just dumped her without any regret. It kills me to think that W could not fancy me like that. SD
I knew you never hit her, SD. I was trying to make a point.
Wow...your laptop crashed, too. Sucks to be you, my friend. (Reminds me to back-up my data)
A friend said to me just the other day: "You know, there is one good thing that has come out of four+ years of SSM: It has forced you to grow emotionally in ways you might never have had the opportunity to grow. The suffering it has caused you, has made you a better person."
SD, Actually, I do feel as if I'm a better person. Do I miss the sex that I could have been having if I'd married someone else? I used to, I guess, but now, it's kind of like missing the wonderful Apple Strudel my imaginary wife Helga might have made for me. So I don't have any strudel. I'm probably healthier because of it...certainly not as fat as I would be.
We are presented with our life. No one gets out of here alive. Might as well make the best of it you can while you're here. Best way to handle that is by [insert text of serenity prayer here], and by constantly trying to improve yourself by learning what you can, understanding what you can, laughing when you can, loving as many people as you can, and digging the beauty around you.
Your wife’s explanation just does not make any sense to me. I cannot believe that for two years while you two waited to become engaged that she felt this overwhelming obligation to marry you, knowing full well that she did not “fancy” you. That is simply preposterous.
She may not want to be married to you now, and you may best leave the marriage, but her reasoning does not ring true. Either she really did “fancy” you at one point, prompting her to stay with you until the engagement or she is giving you a line to cover up something within her that she doesn’t want to admit.
Have you tow been to counseling? I don’t know your sitch, so by the admiration others have given on this board, I assume you must have. But I wonder if she doesn’t have some other major problems that account for her lack of emotion. If you don’t care to go into this, I understand, but it sure sounds like she has some major issues to deal with. It also sounds like you do to, since you stuck with a woman that you knew was emotionally distant. Did you not choose her yourself knowing that your wouldn’t have to worry about being too committed and smothered?
I don’t want to sound calloused. I know you are having a tough time. But has this line to thinking been addressed?
Cobra, She certainly did fancy me at first (I'd say for 6 months) and as a result I think my brain got wired in to loving her and that's the way it's stayed. I'm quite a laid back sort of guy but she on the other hand tends to carry the weight of the world around and our first couple of years were beset with worries such as her father being ill and dying and personality clashes at work. It seemed insensitive to bring up marital problems when so much was worrying her. I was always waiting for her to get over this problem or that problem. It set the pattern for our life I suppose. We had another long convo on Saturday night - because I made a move (even though I am only allowed to on Fridays) and (although I got rejected) she said she would try harder. She is trying harder and has given me some spontaneous cuddles although I get the feeling that they are of the order of [She thinks to her self] "I'm supposed to be trying so I'd better cuddle Hub". I did tell her that I long to feel her hands all over my body and to be fair she did put her hands on my tummy this morning in bed. When I say "Put her hands on..." it was more like a (rather violent) grab of my midrif bulge that had me leaping for the ceiling in fright - sensual she aint! SD - You guys cheer me up.
OK SD, now it's my turn to ask this: do you have Big Brother cameras in my house?
But seriously, my sitch is much the same. I'm a very laid back, take it as it comes kind of guy, but W is like MrsSD. She’s a worrier and carries the weight of the world around with her. In the early years of our marriage I attributed our sex problems to the various stresses we were facing at the time. On top of the normal stresses that come with being newly married, we were still teenagers, we were really struggling financially, and W’s parents hated me. I kept waiting for her to get adjusted and settle into a normal SL, but it simply never happened. She did get more affectionate, but it never did translate into sex.
SD.for her to tell you she don't fancy you is so hurtful. How do you get past a statement like that? Because either you do fancy someone and just have it and feel that way about them or you don't.
I am reading a book on fear of intimacy, which is why I am bringing up this topic. I believe my wife has this issue, I have it to some degree, and it sounds like both of your wives could be candidates too. “Carrying the weight of the world” is an exercise of fantasy. It is a defense meant to protect themselves from some underlying fear. It gives them a sense of control, since they can have a hand in directing the fear and uncertainty of the future, it makes them feel important and authoritative since they are the serious one taking one these huge responsibilities, and it makes them a martyr, vying for the affection and compassion of others for the sacrifice they are making.
All this is an act of self delusion to protect themselves from feelings of vulnerability, abandonment, whatever. Look into their FOO. While many like to ridicule my emphasis on FOO, situations like yours seem warrant looking into their past to help them. Behavioral changes for this situation are only band aids and will never work for long.
The fact of the matter is that both your wives have stayed with you for many years, in spite of their self imposed unhappiness. If leaving would have made them happier, I think they would have left. So they have a need to stay with you, even if they cannot see it. And they won’t be able to see it until they can break down their walls, which they don’t even know exist. To me, this is all FOO related. If you haven’t seen a counselor addressing this stuff, you might think about it, rather than assume there is no hope left for the marriage. If could be that your wives are just very, very dysfunctional and in need of a whole lot of help, a lot more than can be provided on these boards. Just my take.
Yeah, Cobra's right on target with the "weight of the world" being yet another defense. My W does this by saying that x, y, and z are going on, and so she is feeling "especially" stressed, and she'll feel better about ML once she's not stressed. And yes, it likely gives her a feeling of power and importance, while it protects her from feeling vulnerable.
Dang, Cobra, what is that book?
Of course, the pisser is that there is very likely NOTHING we can do to change anything about this. It's up to them to figure it out. And all we can change is our attitude. Sigh.
Superdave: I liked the description of your wife's "(rather violent) grab of my midrif bulge that had me leaping for the ceiling in fright - sensual she aint!" You have to give her some points for trying, right?
How do you get past a statement like that? Because either you do fancy someone and just have it and feel that way about them or you don't.