SD - I am a newbie, but I just had to let you know that my H calls himself SD also, and has mother issues. Scared me a little bit when I first came across your post.
Perhaps your W has some sort of medical problem, low sex drive in women can be symptom of other problems...
DITTO, DITTO, DITTO, DITTO, DITTO, to everything you have said. The very, very, very toughest part is following through on leaving if things don't change.
The only thing I might add to this is that in the mother/son dynamic, I often think that the person who is the 'son' takes on this role as an attempt to keep control of the relationship... often in the same manner a child attempts to manipulate and control their parents.
As with HD, he is 'growing up' so to speak... and if he keeps his course, one of two things will happen... his W will either change or leave him, neither of which he can control, he can only control himself. But these are decisions of an adult, based upon decisions he's made for himself... and he OWNS that. Instead of constantly apologizing and cow-towing for who he is, HD is now (YES!!) becoming his own person.
SD, it is not a cruel thing to tell your wife the scoop on where you are. Is it not a crime to be feeling the way you feel... you are an adult, with your own wants/dreams/desires... if your W can't meet you half way, doesn't mean she is a bad person and you don't love her. IT ISN'T ABOUT HER. It's about you. It's YOUR life. You only have one. You can't live hers and yours... you can only live yours. You are free to be who and what you are, just as she is. You just have to be adult enough and have the courage to accept that. Love her enough to treat her as an adult and give it to her straight... just as you would to any other adult human being on the planet.
The very worst prisons that exist in this world are those we create ourselves, the ones that exist in our own minds.
You think you can only see maybe three possible outcomes to your sitch. All I can tell you is... until you actually DO something, you can't even FATHOM all the possibilities. You just will not see nor experience any of them until you take responsibility for your own life.
So, she doesn't "fancy" you anymore...and hasn't for 27 years?? WTF? (That's American for "blimey!") I actually did a bit of research on this word (fancy) because it is not a word often used in the USA for the connotation she gave it. It can range from meaning a feeling of amorous desire, to a synonym for "like."
I'm thinking that she said, basically, "I no longer feel any amorous desire for you, and haven't, for 27 years." While that's easier to take than "I don't like you, and haven't for 27 years," it is, nevertheless a horrible thing to hear.
And let's be fair, it's a horrible thing to feel, too. But, her choice not to bring it up on the eve of the wedding didn't just affect her...it affected you, too. And notice, she still waves off the responsibility of her going through with the wedding, and not mentioning that she no longer fancied you, as a decision made based on PRESSURE she felt from YOU and YOUR family.
My W has said some hateful things, usually in the midst of an argument. If she said this to me, I would be tempted to pack up and leave. It's just so FINAL.
I know you're not asking for advice, but the "get a life" philosophy seems applicable, as does the "dontgiveashititus."
You're not a wife-beater, are you? Are you emotionally abusing her? Have you done everything you reasonably could to earn a decent living, raise a healthy family, keep a safe home, contribute emotionally to the marriage/family? If you can look in the mirror and honestly answer "yes" to these questions, then you're a good man, SD. You are better than most men. And while "deserve" is, perhaps, too strong a word, you certainly "should" have a wife who fancies you.
At the very least you should have a woman in your life who has not shattered the illusion/hope that she fancies you.
Corri: I agree with everything you said, with the exception of any malicious on the part of either the mother or the son. I'm sure there are M's where it is controlling but for the majority, I don't think there's any malice involved.
I see just as many women voluntarily put themselves in the Mother role--as a way of controlling their surroundings--as men who do the same. In fact, look around at the stuff on television: most of the sitcoms that revolve around a family have a bumbling childish dad and a mock-stern SuperMom of a wife.
I guess what I'm saying is that it goes both ways. Both parties have to be willing in order for the dynamic to take off. The wife has to be acting like a mother in order for her H to submit to that. And the H has to be acting like a child in order for it to be necessary for the W to act like his mom.
When I was a young bride, I worked in an enclosed office with 5 other (older) women. Every single one of them talked about their H's with disdain and as if he was a child. Every one! And they all used to tell me that it was only a matter of time before I did the same..."oh you just think that way because you are a newlywed--just wait!" they'd say.
It's tragic, really. People get into these lazy habits and next thing you know the entire thing is dissolving.
My H and I both had a tendency to act like the Parent/Child, only in different circumstances. Just acting like equal partners, all the time, is a big challenge. It's taken many years now just to get to that point. Amazing how something we slipped into so easily and quickly has taken years to quit doing!
I don't think I said people do this sort of thing with 'malicious' intent. You are absolutely correct in saying that both parties have to participate in this dynamic for it to work... but in my opinion, this is a classic power struggle, and I think people do this unconsciously. And yes, because we get lazy and start taking things for granted.
The reason I honed in on the 'son' is because in that R, the mother typically does hold all the power, as any parent of any child does. But if you understand the philosophy of power... you can only become more powerful by giving your power away... an adult who acts like a child is actually making the 'play' rather than the 'mother.' And it is a passive play for power. If the 'mother' accepts the role the 'child' has given, then you've got that whole dynamic thing starting. The only way to win is not to play the game.
But... how many of us got married before we really knew 'who we were?' And how many of us change over the years and really have to pay attention to "well, that's who I USED to be, but who am I NOW?"
It's a darned tough thing to stay in awareness, especially when we work, we've got kids, houses, activities, etc., etc., etc., because we are being so many different things to so many different people. Who the heck wouldn't get lost on 'who am I?'
But there are behaviors that can stay consistent from situation to situation, year to year, regardless of what you've got going on in your life, if you take the time to discover and own it. kwis?
Again, I do NOT think the parent/child R that develops is done with malicious intent. I think it happens when people do not have healthy boundaries. And we all know how tough developing those boundaries are....
My ex-H and I had a version of this dynamic. I was busy overfunctioning while he was busy being the rebellious/bad son. To this day he interacts with me this same way.
My present H was actually attracted to me because of my maternal qualities. I strenously resist when he refers to me as "Mom". However, I still sometimes wonder if this dynamic affects us too. Maybe in our case it is less a Mom/son and more a Madonna/Whore issue.
SuperDave,
I am very sorry that your W would express such a hurtful thing to you. Is it really genuine or is she just protecting herself/insulating herself from her own failure to engage in the M by saying "well I haven't fancied him for 26 years anyway." If it is an accurate statement then that is a bitter pill to swallow. If she's just hiding behind it then there is hope.
I don't think the mother/son dynamic would necessarily be spotted by an outsider. IOW, it's not always as straightforward as bossy woman, submissive man. It can be much more internal than that. It can be as subtle as the woman nicely taking the lead, making plans, consulting the man, and him nicely going along. It could manifest itself overtly only in the bedroom, in the ways that people discuss here.
My X was an extremely competent person at work, has a job with lots of power, made many decisions around the house and about the family, planned all the vacations and most free time activities. So an outsider might not have perceived son-like behavior. But psychologically, he felt adn related like a son to me.
One marriage counselor we saw explained that when you marry, you are picking someone who fills your needs at the time. You often pick someone who will help you work out issues you had with (the often other-gender) parent. After a couple of decades, you might not need this dynamic anymore. You have worked out those issues and need to move on to others. If your spouse can move on too, the marriage can survive. If not, it breaks apart or painfully stagnates.
The other thing this MC believed is that THERE IS NO BLAME. This one took me years to accept. I wanted to blame my X for the demise of our marriage. After all, it was his decision to step outside it to have an affair, his decision to divorce me. But after years of painful obsessing, I had to see that it was not fair to ask him to stay in a marriage where he could not happily express himself sexually. For the sake of the children, it might have been better had we struggled through our differences, but if I am totally honest, I don't know if I could have ever seen him as a sexually attractive person (even though, as I say, I think he is one of the best-looking men I know!) Our MC also said that some couples can make the switch from mother/son to man/woman, but not all can.
I would have to admit that by the time of my wedding day, I didn't desire my X sexually. That part of the attraction wore off pretty quickly. I was aware of this consciously, but I didn't think it was very important. Our frequency of LM was always pretty standard, but the emotional connection was not there. I would never have told him this (like SD's wife did) but we never could have made any progress unless I admitted that AT THE PRESENT TIME I did not feel sexual attraction. That was the root problem. We were not willing to discuss it. I needed to and I didn't and that was my failing. So I would say that from my viewpoint Mrs. SD's confession about her lack of attraction might be the first step in fixing it. Without her confession, there is no opportunity for change.
Another strange thing: I had many relationships before I married my X. Always, the sexual attraction wore off after 6 months or so. I've read all the reports about how sexual passion inevitably fades. Someone did a study sampling people from cultures around the world and found that passion always fades within 30 - 36 months. This is thought to be physiologically based: a man can impregnate a woman and she can raise the child to toddlerhood, when the child is relatively independent, within a 36 month timespan. Then the male is off to impregnate more women. It's a built-in thing to continue the propagation of the species.
But with my current BF, the passion has not waned (OK, it's 2 years, not three). Always before, it was gone by now. But I think I am operating with him from a totally different place. I am relating to HIM, not to the idea of love or romance, not with the need to find a father for my future children. We are older and each of us has a bigger self to bring to the relationship.
Quote: So I would say that from my viewpoint Mrs. SD's confession about her lack of attraction might be the first step in fixing it. Without her confession, there is no opportunity for change.
You know, I was going to say this, too, but I was kind of on a rant. Perhaps her saying "I don't fancy you" is shorthand for, "I don't fancy you RIGHT NOW, but I might get there someday."
But come on, they've been together 26 years, and she says she felt that way before they got married. I think you might be being a bit overly optimistic.
Mari, your posts are dynamite! So many things fall into place when I read them. Please keep posting... even if you think you're saying obvious stuff.
The subject of marrying or falling in love with someone because of an UNCONSCIOUS drive to replicate relationships from early significant persons and work them through is something we've talked about before on this board... but many are skeptical that this applies to them.
I really like the part about NO BLAME. That doesn't mean you casually move on, but it can be a question of outgrowing something and needing to change or leave. Ideally you both change and grow, but that doesn't always happen.
I agree that SD's w's admission could be the beginning of some truth-telling. I alluded to a book called "Tell Me No Lies" (I believe Lou got it and is reading it). In it one woman finally admitted that every day she prayed that her H would die, because she wanted out of the marriage and didn't have the guts to leave. That little grenade blew the marriage wide open, and they were finally able to be honest with each other and grow. They did not divorce, and changed the whole dynamic of their R to a much healthier one.
Please tell us more about your process. This is so helpful.
I believe that she is either rewriting marital history (and if so, then you need to find out where she is investing herself emotionally), or she is drawing lines in an effort to stop your sex issue.
If she is not rewriting history, and if she is actually being honest, then you need to be packing up her things and setting them to the curb in an efficient manner today. No reason to live with a liar. Twenty six years is a long time to live with a liar. Time to end it now.
If she is still trying to quell the sex issue, then as I posted to you previously, you need to tell her exactly what your intentions are, and you need to do it today.
Now, changing subjects. Did she have a long term relationship before you?
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
