Quote: It is important to choose our partnerships consciously.
That's interesting. I have the sneaking suspicion that I did no such thing. I mean, I met a girl, we went out, we enjoyed each other's company and we escalated almost immediatly. Seems to me that there wasn't any thought about whether it was a good choice on either of our parts. Hmmmm.
Anyway, while I have you all here. I just gotta wonder what it means when you are divorced and amicable. I know so many of you have experienced bitterness and revenge tactics and all of that, but there has been none for me. Not after the bomb, not during the separation, not during the divorce process, not now. I made a few decisions based on the idea that I could still trust my X and that she was a good person (for example during the D process), and I was rewarded by her being even more generous than I expected.
Neither of us seem to be mad. I am, of course, deeply sad, but not angry. I don't know how she feels since we do not discuss these things, but the general impression from her behaviour is that she is not sad and also certainly not angry.
We have the children factor and joint custody, but we behave towards each other in much the same way we did for most of our marriage. We go over board to sacrifice our wants in order to be nice to the other. The R dynamic hasn't really changed that much in other words.
And I understand the letting go and moving on and all that. I can see the problems with our marriage and would not want to resurrect it the way it was say 10 months ago, but I would like some clarity about "us". In many ways, I am the same boat as you were Wes (um I mean, Just_Me) and I'm not getting it.
I don't believe I am in a position to get into a new R right now since I am still mourning my marriage. I don't believe it is wise or healthy to operate on the assumption that some reconciliation is eminent or even probable. I am not mistaking niceness for romantic love. I'm just confused, as usual.
How's that for hijack? I suppose I should start my own thread over here some day.
No problem BigAl, you can use this as your thread also. It's not like I post about myself. It's more like a discussion forum.
Yeah, I was in the same boat as you Al, a separation and divorce without bitterness and actually for awhile a pretty decent friendship. It was too hard on me and I swung back and forth...can't be friends..can be friends...can't be friends, and I think my XW is likely to the point where she'd prefer avoiding the drama. I think we've settled into a less friendly area, but the major advantage is it's much easier to detach. Perhaps if you are incredibly patient and not expect more, something will come of the relationship. I definitely think that one that ends in animosity and bitterness has a worse chance. I just couldn't do it anymore. The touching, the hugs, the doing things as a couple were just too difficult to handle. I'm glad that you could part at least amicably. At the very least it will help the kids adjust.
For me, I'm more at the point where I'd like a friendship of some sort, where we can talk and her kids can visit, but I no longer want more than that. Getting her back is no longer in my goals. It just wouldn't enhance my life.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
I love this! It is a great reminder for all of us as to what we should and probably do already know. I have printed this off and will read it from time to time. This is kind of like a public service message, COOL!
On the surface I am nice to my husband but a friendship, hm, no not really. I feel that for someone who is as passive/aggressive as the man that I was married to, being friends would in his mind be saying that what he did to not only me, but to my kids was ok and it will NEVER be ok. I wasn't put here to lessen his guilt, no can do.
BigAl, my husband never showed any signs of remorse in the beginning either, but 3 years later it's a whole different ballgame. When things don't turn out as they envisioned, they start to think about what they did. For the first time in this whole mess I am seeing the flip side. It's sad but I have to keep myself at bay in order not to get sucked into his sadness.
Honestly, I don't know how a spouse who never wanted this can go on and be friends. Oh it's one thing to be cordial and to make it peaceful for the kids, but quite another to be friends with the person that broke your heart. If anyone knows the answer to this pass it on. Oh nevermind, I really have no interest in letting that happen. Way too much water under the bridge!
It takes a long time to get any real normalicy back into our lives. To me a friendship would only be a constant reminder. Besides I wouldn't have someone for a friend that treated me in this way. So what's the point?
The next time, I won't be so eager to take that leap of faith. There's a whole lot more to consider and I don't ever want to be in this position again. AMEN!
Beth, I agree with you completely. Me and XH said we were staying friends but not really. I am friendly with him and vice versa. Occassionally he will send me email asking how I am and when he comes across something of mine he will get it to me either by bringing it by or mailing it. But do I consider us friends? No, don't think I could ever trust him completely again and I would need that to be friends. Linda
I bent over backwards to keep it amicable and in the process was repeatedly burned. Curious thing, that. She was quite nice to me most of the time...as long as I was giving her what she wanted. Once I said no, the threats and intimidation would start.
Real friendship is not possible with that dynamic. I have found it best to detach. That solution is imperfect as well as she has finally figured it out and doesn't like that one bit either.
I don't know what other choice I have. We have children together. Fighting serves no purpose and I certainly won't abandon them in order to avoid her.
I believe the worst is over for now...and it was bad. The next test will be when I develop a new R. I don't expect her to be silent and wouldn't be surprised if the old tried and true method of hinting at legal intimidation for some perceived grievance gets thrown at me again.
Discussing custody:
"I'm going to get a judge and have the kids taken from you"
Discussing a love letter I wrote where she got upset that I wrote it and I tried to calm her down.
"You COULD have been violent and hit me"
Discussing custody again:
"I was talking with my mother about whether you would molest our daughter"
Discussing why she broke a verbal agreement regarding our children's right to self-determination with their own bodies.
"I grew up in a family where my mother didn't have to tell my father every little thing about the kids"
Disagreement over discipline for a child not eating what's on plate
"I wanted to scratch your eyes out"
blah blah blah
Oh, and this only enraged her further:
"I'm sorry you feel that way"
You should have seen the email flames one night when I thanked her showing confidence in my abilities as father. Suddenly, it got vicious. So I replied "I guess I'll just have to try harder." It went back and forth like that several times and she would only get more irate. Surreal!
Friends?...I'd rather sleep with a rattlesnake, at least there is a warning before they strike.
Thanks folks. Hey Beth oh sage from the state next store (I'm in Indiana)
Quote: On the surface I am nice to my husband but a friendship, hm, no not really
Someone else (Jennbird I think) mentioned the difference between "friends" and "friendly". I think ex and I are friendly, but not friends. Our children are fairly young and live with us in a close (50/50) arrangement so contact is inevitable, of course.
What confuse me is the DB dance I get now. If I back off, she closes in, etc. I wonder why that behavior continues when the R changes? More accurately in my case, the behaviour began when went into "getting divorced" mode. Clearly, it relieved a good deal of pressure on her when that became the official goal. She no longer had to fear that I would misinterpret anything as an attempt to reconcile. She even said as much.
The communication between us is pretty much 100% kid related now, but I do not understand her, well, clinginess at times. I do not believe regret is anywhere in the realm of her thoughts. I understand that there is a habit formed talking to someone you have talked to daily for years and years. She is not without close support from others including her single male "friend".
I suppose this early on in the process, it is the struggle to not express my feelings about the demise of the marriage that is difficult. I have long since recognized that such things are for me, not for her. I feel badly about it. She, I am sure, is well aware of that. Telling her that when I feel down does not change her impression and doesn't make me feel any better.
Dang, I thought I had some coherent idea in there somewhere but it slipped away.
J_M expressed something that I worry about a bit. I don't want to be sucked into waiting for something in this process. Nor do I want to become aloof simply because it is not a good thing for the children and it would be, for me, a mean way to be. In a way, we have started again at step one in building some sort of R between us only this time, the outcome is not something that could be delightful and wished for (or at least, not as delightful).
That really is it in a nutshell. They are so much like children that as long as they get what they want there is peace on earth! The bad behavior seems to show when we stand up to them about almost anything no matter how trivial.
I used to be fooled by this. I wanted to believe that maybe he was mellowing and seeing the light. Then we would ask for something and he would go off. I believe that as long as they do this they are not anywhere near the end of their little crisis!
Good to speak with you again!
Linda,
I don't know what the e-mails are really about, but possibly it makes him, in his mind anyway, feel like he's being a good guy by inquiring.
I'm sure you are like me in that you never believed that you would be in this position. Sometimes I would almost be angry at myself for putting so much faith into a person who I knew to be very selfish and self-centered. Duh, if you don't face it, you don't have to do anything about it. I always did play it safe!
I know why this happens. It's human nature that when someone changes the dance the other one automatically comes closer to the middle in order to understand what's happening.
I am very lucky in having a best friend who is by profession a shrink. As soon as I stopped pursuing or actively DBing, my husband seemed to snap to attention. This not only confused me but had me in knots all of the time I was around him.
The way she explained it was that in a normal relationship both parties stand together working towards a common goal. It's kind of like envisioning a circle with 2 people in the center. When someone pulls away as our spouses have done, it leave us in the center all alone, and they are somewhere on the perimeter. So all of the time that we are alone in the center we are begging and pleading and threatening, but something snaps and we change the dance. That leaves them thinking wait a minute what's going on here and that's when they start to come closer to figure things out. They don't like when we start to be less predictable.
Quote: I used to be fooled by this. I wanted to believe that maybe he was mellowing and seeing the light. Then we would ask for something and he would go off. I believe that as long as they do this they are not anywhere near the end of their little crisis!
I felt the same way which brings me to BigAl's statement.
Quote:
J_M expressed something that I worry about a bit. I don't want to be sucked into waiting for something in this process. Nor do I want to become aloof simply because it is not a good thing for the children and it would be, for me, a mean way to be. In a way, we have started again at step one in building some sort of R between us only this time, the outcome is not something that could be delightful and wished for (or at least, not as delightful).
I feel I have no choice but to be aloof and I don't like it one bit. It is an emotional and personal protection defense mechanism.
However,
how will we know when their crisis is over in order to re-build at least some kind of R. I used to think, I could just forgive and forget. No apology on her part was necessary. Now, I demand one. That's the only way I'll know for sure that she has re-possessed her faculties.
H*ll will freeze over first before that happens. So aloofness it is for the forseeable future.
