Quote: We've slowly, but inexorably been moving farther apart from each other. It's largely her doing.
Are you sure?
Quote: Before I left I told my X that I thought she needed to move all her stuff out of the house. I also told her that I didn't want anything more to do with her; that I wanted us to go our separate ways.
If directed at me, I'd take this as a directive to not call, come over, have dinner together, etc... So maybe she's merely following your request. This might 'settle' things for you, but it also may muddle up her work or process regarding the R with you.
Quote: she isn't changing, I'm just finally waking up to the problems (I won't go into details).
I've seen notable change in your sitch. From her chasing after attention from guys in pubs to her quieting and spending more time with you. Sure, the fantasy emailing/chatting has continued now and then, but that's a far cry from realworld affairs or OPs. She seems to be doing her work. I wouldn't read too much into recent changes in her behavior like increased coldness, etc.., b/c that might merely be a consequence of these new more distant boundaries.
On a side, I've wondered from time to time whether her staying in town despite poor job and residence situations might have to do mainly with your presence. This distancing might remove that one reason for her staying local.
The initial main issue that triggered the bomb - that of it not working out b/c of the families (read - kids) not meshing - is now blown out of the water. Her kids were ASKING to spend time with you. You proved over these past 7-8 months to be a great step-dad despite the S/D. She has noticed this, JM.
If this is about you transitioning to an equal place of just wanting to walk away, I respect that. You have done more thn your share of DB work. And you deserve to have your love/companionship needs met. I just wanted to point out patterns of change from afar.
The not coming over and stuff occurred before I said that about taking her things and that I didn't want to see her anymore, but your point is well taken...it's probably both ways.
The problem is that in some respects I want to try again, but in many respects I don't. There are many things very unattractive about her (and I'm not talking about her looks...although she does look about 10 years older). Believe me, if she's done work it's been to undo a special person she was and replace it with the persona of a woman I wouldn't even ask on a date, much less form a long term relationship with. I would have to see a lot of changes before I would risk a R with her. I seriously feel at this time that she would take away rather than add to a R.
So my current feeling is the only way that we have a future together is if the dynamic changes completely. She needs to want a relationship and actually WORK to acheive that. There won't be any hand-outs from me. So given those limitations, it's highly probable that we are done. I'm learning to accept that. I'm happy again. I'm enjoying the time I get to spend with my kids and with friends and at work.
My goals have really evolved. While the door is still open a crack to her, for the most part a new relationship with her isn't a goal I'm working towards. My goals are related to personal growth. And while at some point I would like to date and find someone to share time with, I am no longer convinced that my XW is a better choice than other women. As she is now, she's a worse choice.
Gabe, I did get the picture. Thanks. Check your e-mail.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
I've got a story from the other side. My friend is a WAW. She says that her and her H are even better friends now. Sound familiar? But despite that, she expressed no hesitation in stating that she's filing for divorce. It makes me think of situations like mine, where we were becoming better friends than ever and I felt it meant something. What I got from my WAW friend is that it means something to them...they are glad that they could remain friends. It actually seemed to me as though the friendliness made the process easier. I thought to myself, but never said, that he was probably still so friendly because he wanted her back. Just thought I'd share that. It really just was a reminder to me that I was stupid to think my XW wanted to be friends because there was a possibility of getting back together. More likely it assuaged her guilt.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Maybe in the shortterm, friendliness serves them by helping to assuage guilt. But it also, especially in the longterm, makes the LBS a safer person to contact. I'm sure it sucked to hear that...I find myself feeling grimy when I run up against that WAS story in reallife.
Regarding the effects of friendliness in a sitch, time will tell...
Just an interesting snippet about divorce that also includes a little bit about "regrets".
Quote: There is no epidemic of divorced women who made the decision to file for divorce who now are saying: I should not have done that; I should not have filed for a divorce; I stupidly and frivolously was induced to file for a divorce merely because the option was available and it was a mistake. Here and there, maybe a few. But in the main?
Studies show that most women -- even when they were NOT the instigators of their marital breakups -- are measurably happier for being divorced, once the throes of litigation have passed and change is settled. The divorced disgruntleds -- a notable portion of them men, and a notable portion of them in the religious right anti-women's-rights movement and/or father's rights movements, and a notable portion of them abusers and controllers or otherwise the cause of the breakdown of their emotional marital relationship -- resent not having been granted the power to force their spouses to stay with them. But the spouses who divorced them did so after fully considering that the divorcers' own lives would be the better for it. And since no law in the land CURRENTLY can force one legally competent law-abiding adult human being to reside with another (let alone sleep in that other's bed), consider what "divorce reform" really means with regard to the engaging of techniques and devices and schemes of law to induce those individuals who otherwise would want to be divorced to "voluntarily" remain "married."
It will make them think harder about getting divorced? Bunk. This is paternalistic crap that presumes that women often make rash decisions on life-altering matters that they have not thought through thoroughly, even agonized over for long periods of time.
It will force them to "try harder" to work out their differences? Bunk. It's been proved through research that women typically don't give up on their marriages except after "trying everything" first to "fix" them, and that many women who file for divorce in fact never wanted to "be divorced" in the first place. (See Myths and Facts About Motherhood and Marriage.) And why should we be surprised? In our culture, it's often women moreso than men who, prior to experiencing it, want to be married! (Are they capricious loonies? Is this some kind of delayed post-partum psychosis? Or were they fed Cinderella stories too often in childhood...)
And also this last little snippet
Quote: Women's reasons for filing for divorce -- whatever they may be -- are not "frivolous." No human being's rational choice on an issue of this magnitute is frivolous because quite simply: NO one else has the right to say to a woman -- or to ANY person -- "your life as it is now is good enough for you."
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Quote: It will force them to "try harder" to work out their differences? Bunk. It's been proved through research that women typically don't give up on their marriages except after "trying everything" first to "fix" them, and that many women who file for divorce in fact never wanted to "be divorced" in the first place. (See Myths and Facts About Motherhood and Marriage.) And why should we be surprised? In our culture, it's often women moreso than men who, prior to experiencing it, want to be married! (Are they capricious loonies? Is this some kind of delayed post-partum psychosis? Or were they fed Cinderella stories too often in childhood...)
18 years ago in a far away galaxy: XW (then GF) : "Let's get married next year." Me : "Great!"
18 years ago + 3 weeks: XW (then fiance) : " Let's get married at city hall in 6 weeks instead." Me : "Great!"
2 years ago: XW (then W): "I never really wanted to get married in the first place." Me : "Great!"
I really enjoyed the story. Can't wait to see the movie. Shhhh! Don't tell me how it ends.
Quote: Snowdog, you cheered me up. I know that wasn't supposed to be funny, but that story about your XW made me laugh for the first time in days.
GG, While it wasn't funny two years ago, it certainly is now. I'm glad I made you smile.
I'll have to tell you the story sometime of how my X left me once about 10 years ago for 3 months and I didn't even notice. Silly me, I thought I was establishing a new home having found a new job.
I'm so glad she set me straight this time. I'd hate to think she was being capricious and might actually consider reconciling some day.
All that hard work she did on our R shouldn't go to waste.
Know what I find humorous? The spouse that asked for the divorce supposedly "tried everything". I can't recall a whole lot of different tactics that my XW tried. She could have bought a book, suggested marriage counseling, or perhaps even said "hey, I'm really miserable and if things don't change we're headed for divorce". But you really can't fault the WAS just because they have a limited repertoire of relationship tools at their disposal. I didn't have any either....fight or avoid. It is really quite silly how stubborn two people can be and how little effort, really, that either make to improve things.
My X would say this is funny too. She would claim she "tried everything" when it still mattered, and I tried everything when it was too late and not before. Of course, I no longer buy into anything said about me by a walk-away.
Oh yeah...I do think they are capricious loonies. And left behind women, I'm not including you.
Last thought, and I'm obviously just rambling, while women more often file for divorce, isn't it possible that men consciously or unconsciously give up and no longer give a crap if they piss off their wife, maybe even hoping that they will resort to divorce? Or maybe it was just me.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
You'd have to define or qualify what "everything", as in "tried everything", actually means. My wife said she "tried everything". Actually, she didn't say it, she wrote it, in her private journal. The private journal she kept, that she showed me a part of, after the bomb, where she also wrote, some six months before the bomb, "I don't think he's even aware that our marriage is falling apart".
Seems to me that someone who's tried "everything" would've at least included notifying their spouse and giving a heads up, no?
The journal knew what her issues were. So did her girl friends... and so did the OM. But not me. I wasn't told.
Then too, it seems to me, that if someone's involved in an EA or a PA and claims at the same time that they were trying to work on the marriage, that there's an emotional unavailibility occuring that undermines that person's efforts to work on the relationship. Is that why while she says she was "trying everything", she didn't communicate her needs or wasn't open or honest and instead practiced avoidance and deception?
And maybe that's why I wasn't told about how she was feeling? Because what she really wanted was to not have the relationship repaired, so that she could get what she liked getting from the OM?
In DR, MWD makes the point about how it may be that an unhappy spouse uses a mode of communication to get their message across, but if the mode doesn't work, they don't change the mode, but amplify instead using the same mode, despite it being a cheeseless tunnel.
She also makes the point that "everything" encompasses a pretty large scope, and truly, not too many can really say that "everything" was tried.
Then too, there's the mention made of how the unhappy partner has a tendency of putting the fault squarely on their partner, hoping their partner will change, rather than even looking at what part they play in the condition of their relationship. Relationships and their dynamics, after all, are not a reflection of just one partner, but of both.
So I'm really dubious as to the meaningfulness of the alleged proof stated as "It's been proved through research that women typically don't give up on their marriages except after 'trying everything' first to 'fix' them"...
I can't recall a whole lot of different tactics that my XW tried. She could have bought a book, suggested marriage counseling, or perhaps even said "hey, I'm really miserable and if things don't change we're headed for divorce". But you really can't fault the WAS just because they have a limited repertoire of relationship tools at their disposal. I didn't have any either....fight or avoid.