ZB, I know where you are coming from with refusal to divorce. What I don't understand is the need to, in the meantime, continue to treat her as a beloved wife when she clearly doesn't relish that role.
What about a sort of in-house separation? I know you don't want to rock the boat and that she will make your life miserable but I think a large part of the depression that you sometimes feel is due to the fact that you take her abuse, day after day. It is anger at yourself, kwim?
The reason I suggested talking to your pastor is to get some advice re: what options are open to you, besides living with a full blown narcissist for the rest of your days and hating every minute of it.
I hope you find some sense of peace with your decision, no matter what that decision is Z_Bube. You certainly are putting in the work to make a thoughtful decision, not acting on impluse. You should be proud of the effort you have made so far. Good luck with the C.
This is not a binary situation. You aren't limited to
"Must continue bearing the burden as is"
and
"Must get out in order to stop this"
There are things you can do while in the relationship that can impact it. Obviously, your wife can and does listen to you to some extent as evidenced by the animal situation.
Characteristics of People Pleasers: 1. People Pleasers rarely consider their own needs, wants, and desires.
2. People Pleasers take any criticism as fact, and immediately suffer a deflation in their own self-esteem.
3. People Pleasers feel an extraordinary fear of abandonment.
4. People Pleasers blame themselves for everything that ever goes wrong.
5. People Pleasers are more concerned with others' feelings than their own.
6. People Pleasers have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility, expecting of themselves magical abilities to fix the significant others' in their lives.
7. People Pleasers learned early in their lives to bury their own feelings, needs, and wants, and keep them buried until they get help for their problems.
8. People Pleasers chronically confuse pity with love and self-sacrifice with caring for others.
People Pleasers are often the unwitting contributors to family dysfunction, although they are far from being the only culprit in a dysfunctional family. People Pleasers tend to have Injustice Collector counterparts: the Injustice Collector in the family remembers every slight, real or imagined, and throws it back in the People Pleaser's face, while the People Pleaser scurries to set things right with the angry Injustice Collector. The cycle will repeat indefinitely, because the particular dysfunctions of the People Pleaser and the Injustice Collector are a perfect fit with one another: Injustice Collectors feel entitled and People Pleasers feel that everyone ELSE is entitled.
End quote.
I think aspects of the above apply to several of the men who post here. In the same way that the LD spouse can control the sexual relationship, the crankiest, most outspoken person can control the marital relationship.
There really are hills to die on, ie. issues to fight for. One of them would be damaging words and actions toward your children. It's one thing to vent about a child being difficult or whatever, but what you described earlier sounds much worse than that. Is it not possible to say, "do not speak to me about our children in this way."?
ZB, I found a web forum for NPD folks. Here's the link.
You have to scroll way down to get to the forum menu. One of the folks posted this and I found it interesting.
"I was having a conversation last night with someone who has been diagnosed with NPD and the idea of how this disorder is perceived among many in these online groups came up. She finds it interesting that so many people seem to believe that those around them with NPD spend a great deal o f time thinking up ways to manipulate others. Her response to that is that as a person who has been diagnosed with this disorder she cannot relate to that at all. Basically, she says she is too selfish to give other people the amount of emotional time and energy coming up with ways to harm them which others seem to think NPDers do. Other people are not worth the time to her, they become boring and she moves on rather than spending untold amounts of time trying to find ways to keep them hooked or suck them back into her life.
When I look at my own life I'd say this is a fairly accurate description of how I related, or didn't relate to others for the first thirty years or so. When I was in relationships of one kind or another I really didn't spend that much time thinking of the other person in either good or bad ways. That was a part of my problem. And to be sure after I walked away I didn't spend time thinking of them or stalking them across the internet. That simply is not consistent with me or most other persons I've met who are truly experiencing NPD.
I wonder why its so important for people to think that those with NPD are spending such great efforts coming up with ways to create havoc, especially once a relationship is over, but to a certain degree while its still alive. I'd be interested in hearing how others are thinking, and why it is you believe the person you are, or were, with was so focused on you."
End Quote.
Another poster wrote:
"I was thinking about empathy as it relates to wanting to care for and be kind to other people. I've been practicing some of the meditation techniques recommended on this site and I'm getting a bit better at just watching the reactions of myself in various situation without judging myself.
As I do this I'm realizing more and more that I really honestly don't seem to have a lot of desire to be caring or kind for other people. I just fake it, both to myself and others, because that way people won't get angry at me or avoid me and also that way I won't have to tell myself, internally, that I'm being a bad person.
The only empathy I seem to have, genuinely, is for animals and babies. I think it's empathy, at least. I imagine how they are feeling and I feel this genuine love and concern for them. I want to care for them and be kind to them, and it doesn't feel like a burden or an imposition. It just seems to flow naturally."
End Quote:
And one other regarding animals.
"It seems to me that a lot of people who have these wounds to the self have a deep bounding or feeling of empathy for animals. Maybe this is because we see animals as being the only things which in our lives which offer us unconditional acceptance and love. Our pets don't go around causing us emotional pain or complaining that we are flawed, evil, etc... so we develop a very special relationship with them. Pets have always been a very important part of my life, but its taken a long time and a lot of work to allow myself to be open to people."
Anyway, I just wanted to pass it on to you since it consists of people who have been diagnosed with the disorder and who are discussing it and making attempts to deal with it. I thought it might offer you something helpful and/or hopeful.
We had snow and ice here in north Texas last Thursday. I was trying valiantly to get into work, but only made it halfway before some bozo, who thought four-wheel drive trumped physics, managed to spin, hit one of those concrete barriers, and carom into me. So I was out Thursday and Friday. I’m in a class this week, so I really won’t have time to catch up on the BB until next week. I did glance at it this morning though, and I want to thank you for your posts. I haven’t looked at either of the sites yet, but your descriptions make both sound too close for comfort.
I really need to get going to class, but I do want to comment on the NPD one. I especially liked the first quote. Some of the comments here have tended to imply that W sits around thinking of ways to hurt the rest of us. I said that I really didn’t see that in W; she doesn’t think about it, it’s just the way she is. I was glad to see the poster echo that. OK, maybe it’s just good to feel a little validation, but it’s nice to hear someone with NPD verify what I’ve been thinking.
Thanks again. I will check out the sites you suggested when I get a chance.
P.S. Stay away from bozos in big trucks--they don't know how to drive. MrH says neither do moms in minivans and I would have to agree with that. Be careful!
hey wait a minute...MrsGGB is a mom in a mini-van. Oh, wait, she's the one who ran over the mini-van's bench seat in our driveway a few weeks ago destroying the seat and putting a $400 dent in the front fender . Point taken
