What does your counselor advise as a way to deal with this? There are books out there on how to deal with a narcissistic spouse. Everything you’re saying here seems consistent with how I understand they behave. We all have some of this behavior. My wife and even I both do some of this. The problem you have is the degree. It seems your wife is off the scale, making her narcissistic, rather than just having some of those tendencies.
Nevertheless, since you have decided to stay with her, what can you do to set up stronger boundaries? I know this will cause her to explode, but once you call out a narcissist’s bluff, they won’t test you on that particular thing any more. They may move on to something else, but you can put that particular item out of the way. Over time, you can reign them in somewhat.
It is a hard, tough road, and I’ve had to deal with it myself. In some ways, the behavior of a narcissist is nothing more than a lack of boundaries, which I see as similar to many other people. The only thing is that the narcissist cannot or will not accept responsibility for what s/he does. Getting them to recognize that they are even doing this is the task. Reading books, hearing the consistent opinion of others and the counselor, may slowly break through this realization. It’s not easy, but if you’re going to stay with her, I sure wouldn’t hesitate starting to lay down some strong boundaries.
A lot of what Mrs NOP is saying is exactly what my counselor told me. It resulted in more fights, a lot of anger on both our parts and me becoming more verbally abusive in order to counteract her. Perhaps you can do it better than I. I did know have the support and advice of this board at that time. But things have gotten better. My W knows to hold her tongue a little more. Knowing that others are judging her has an affect.
You keeping the outward appearance the all is perfect perpetuates her control. I think you should let her know that you have no intention of hiding what is going on. If she doesn’t like it, then she needs to change, not you. Narcissists live on the adoration of others. Right now you are enabling.
And I don’t care what everyone else says about this, it is a power struggle, plain and simple. You need to get some of that power back to level the playing field. With narcissistic/abusive people, the more you give they more that take. So stop giving ground. That’s my take.
Quote: You keeping the outward appearance the all is perfect perpetuates her control. I think you should let her know that you have no intention of hiding what is going on. If she doesn’t like it, then she needs to change, not you. Narcissists live on the adoration of others. Right now you are enabling.
This is an excellent point. Public opinion seems to be one thing she values, so you may find some leverage there.
Since I’ve already admitted to being a bit dull, it won’t hurt to do it again. Exactly how do I go about outing the sitch? What do I say when W hints at adult fun that we all know will never really come about? GEL said, “Prove it”, but even though saying something like that would tell W that I’m not buying it, it wouldn’t crack the public façade. So just how do you suggest that I proceed?
I’m not sure I understand your question. What I was referring to was keeping up the appearance to outsiders that all is well on the home front. Go ahead and tell friends and relatives you two are on the ropes, need to go to counseling, etc. I also wouldn’t stop at saying she has temper problems and you and your D are verbally abused.
Have you read up on abusive e and controlling people? One way they keep the abuse going is shaming the family into do hanging out the dirty laundry. By doing this, you let her maintain the ability to hide her abuse from the world. Instead, if you let the world know what she is doing, how she beat your kids, she will get all kinds of pressure to straighten up. She won’t like it one bit and there will be hell to pay. But keep doing it and keep standing up to her. She needs to know there’s a new sheriff in town and you’re not going to tolerate her behavior.
By the way, what does your religion say if she decides to leave or get divorced?
ZB, I think it was Mrs. NOP who put it the best. She has a very even-tempered, grownup way of putting things. I'm afraid I come across as too b!tchy, and besides, today I'm on a hair trigger.
Top Ten Responses for Zbube to say to Ms.Z when she says something suggestive, and does the Groucho Marx Eyebrow Thingy:
10. Do you have something in your eye? 9. As if. 8. Well, that's about as likely to happen as a monkey flying out of my butt. 7. Why do you insist on maintaining the charade that we have some sort of interesting sex life? Or any type of sex life at all, for that matter? 6. Don't bother. They already know that the only exciting thing on our bed is the pattern on the sheets. 5. Why wait till we get home? Just bend over right now and brace yourself. 4. How about we try that wile thing we did last time? You remember, don't you? I'll do my duty while you consider what color to paint the ceiling. 3. Now sweetie...don't you remember the horrible thing that happened the last time you suggested something like that in front of our friends and you actually followed through? Of course you do. Germany invaded Poland (or insert your favorite historic reference from long ago.) 2. Honey, why do you insist on mentioning that in front of our friends? The mental image of us doing what you just suggested, well, they shouldn't have to live with that. 1. I'd say something, but all I can think of is Hairdog's list of things, and I don't want to sleep on the couch tonight.
Actually, I do like your style and I do think that the first five suggestions were great. I may even use one or two of them. But that’s not really what I was asking. Well, it was, but it wasn’t. What I’m really asking is how to go about breaking the cycle. IRL, I think I’m a lot like you come across here and not nearly as serious and straight-laced as my Z-Bube persona. The natural approach for me would be a witty and somewhat pithy comeback like the ones you suggested. But the question is, does applying humor help or hurt? If I make a joke of it, does that allow her to dismiss the genuine feelings behind the reply? Would I be better served by something like, “W, you know nothing’s going to happen. So why pretend?”
Quote: ------------------------------------ Would I be better served by something like, “W, you know nothing’s going to happen. So why pretend?” ------------------------------------
If you can handle the fallout, try this IN PUBLIC next time it comes up;
"Wife, stop pretending that we have a sex life. You know that is a lie".
You will not get through to her with anything less than both barrels.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Z: I agree with Nopkins. My list was only my displaced anger/frustration at how my situation seems so much like yours, except lacking about 17 years of hell.
Lil: I think your suggested off-loading of my rocks at your place borders on the indecent. I love that about you.
