I’m not sure how to answer that. I don’t know that I respond at all. I certainly don’t expect that anything will happen, but I don’t say that. Should I say something? Should I call BS? Should I play along – just in case?
Yep I get that act too :-) However when my H does this I've gotten to where I just say something like "uh huh" or look at him with raised eyebrows and a skeptical look on my face...and he responds with something similar to "I know...prove it." He knows now that I don't buy it when he makes innuendos in front of others.
So...as MrsNOPS said...what do you do/say when she does do the groucho marx act?
My bf does this too-- the innuendos about later sexual activity. He doesn't do it around other people, just when we're alone. I used to play into it and join in, considering it a good sign that he was at least interested, but now that I know nothing is going to happen, I just ignore the remarks.
ZB-your w sounds so much like my late husband's first w it's uncanny. In public she was the most gregarious person, but in private she was a tyrant. When they had a party she used to literally run a gloved hand along the chair rungs to make sure the kids had dusted and then rip them a new one if they hadn't. She was a sainted church lady in public.
Also ZB your W doesn't have to be an ogress for you to leave her. She doesn't have to "deserve" it. It's not something you do TO her. It's something you do to save your own LIFE.
I have nothing to add other than that I was a SAHM for nine years and now (after five years) I am the Deputy Director of a non-profit agency and earning a reasonable ending. W can do it too.
Quote: W puts on an act as well. I've identified very well with your comments about how your H is more physical in public. W is too.
Somewhere there is a place for radical honesty from you regarding her actions. She acts nicer in public because she cares to some extent how others perceive her. From what you've expressed here, trying to get your wife to talk about squat is difficult/impossible.
I would consider thinking it through and trying to determine in your deepest self what you think and feel about her tendency to be more physical in public. If it helps get you through the day and you want it to continue status quo, then don't do or say anything.
OTOH, if you're tired of feeling that you're being used as a subcharacter in a charade that your wife is performing for her benefit alone, I think I would discuss it with her. Taking into consideration how your discussions seem to go, I would approach it recognizing how it's likely to go.
"Wife are you aware that when we are in pubic in front of other people you are more physically affectionate and/or sexual with me than you are at home in privacy?"
(Wait a moment for answer. If you get an answer, then go from there. I suspect you won't get an answer if she follows the usual procedure. If no answer after a moment then:)
"It's something that I've noticed for some time and I just don't understand. I enjoy experiencing your affection and/or touching (or whatever is happening), but I want to experience that at home, when it's just the two of us. When it occurs primarily in public, I feel as if it has nothing to do with your feelings about me and much to do with an appearance that you want to portray to others. I could be wrong, and would appreciate hearing your perception of this."
(If you get no response, or if she goes ballistic).
"While I would love to receive affection from you, I am not comfortable receiving it primarily in public and therefore I'm asking that you not do that anymore until we arrive at some sort of mutually understood resolution."
Quote:
I've also told you about the verbal innuendos haven't I? She even makes comments, raises eyebrows, and things like that to indicate normal sexual interest. You know, she’ll say something about the kids being gone and we’ll be home alone while doing the Groucho Marx thing with her eyebrows. But it’s all a front.
Have you ever asked her "why"? Have you ever told her, "You know it pains me whenever you do this sexual innuendo thing when I have longed for a closer, sexually relationship with you. Is there some response you would like to see from me in response to you when you do this?"
ZB, what I am trying to say is this. Examine closely those things in your relationship that occur repeatedly. Start devising AND practicing some responses that are different from what you have always done. If you've looked blankly at her during those times, come up with some response and see what happens.
I know that what you recently heard has been heart-rending. The positive I see in it is the ability to take a more realistic look at your situation. "Hope deferred makes the heart sick." Now you can stop looking for the magic combination. Instead you can start making the choices that will make your life more tolerable for you.
You've put a lot of effort in being a better ZB. Perhaps it is time to be a more assertive ZB. That doesn't mean controlling or anger. It means going outside of your own comfort zone and drawing some lines, determining some consequences, and finding the strength to carry them through. Obviously your wife is able to control herself in public. That lets you have some idea that getting some measure of that for yourself in your private life is possible.
I think the time to "play along" ended a long time ago.
I pretty much ignore the innuendos too – both public and private. I know there won’t be any action to back them up.
Quote: Also ZB your W doesn't have to be an ogress for you to leave her. She doesn't have to "deserve" it. It's not something you do TO her. It's something you do to save your own LIFE.
Lil and others, I know this to be absolutely true. I’ve had many people tell me that I should leave W, that I’m throwing my life away with a woman who will never change and a woman who doesn't deserve me. Believe me, I know. (Well, I'm not sure about the doesn't deserve me part.) As I told you at the beginning of this thread, although the C stopped short of telling me to bail out, he certainly made it abundantly clear that he felt that I would be completely justified in doing so.
I’ve read SuperDave’s moving on thread and it hits so close to home that it’s downright scary. I feel the way he does and I greatly admire him for trying to regain some measure of control and sanity in his life. But I’m just being honest with all of you when I tell you that I can’t/won’t do that. I tried it once before and I felt worse. It’s mostly a religious thing. Look at the stuff I posted to CeMar. I don’t want to argue religion with anybody, but those are my beliefs. They’re not open to negotiation. I believe that marriage is a lifetime commitment. I can try to make it better, but I can’t walk out on it. When I did that, I felt much worse. I felt like a liar. I felt like I had disobeyed God. I felt like I had put my own selfish desires above my obligations to W and to my daughter. I felt like I had violated something that was important to me. I won’t say that I could never change my views on this, but they’re pretty set. Right or wrong, that’s what I’ve experienced and that’s what I believe.
Quote: But I’m just being honest with all of you when I tell you that I can’t/won’t do that. I tried it once before and I felt worse. It’s mostly a religious thing. Look at the stuff I posted to CeMar. I don’t want to argue religion with anybody, but those are my beliefs. They’re not open to negotiation. I believe that marriage is a lifetime commitment. I can try to make it better, but I can’t walk out on it. When I did that, I felt much worse. I felt like a liar. I felt like I had disobeyed God. I felt like I had put my own selfish desires above my obligations to W and to my daughter. I felt like I had violated something that was important to me. I won’t say that I could never change my views on this, but they’re pretty set. Right or wrong, that’s what I’ve experienced and that’s what I believe.
ZB, there's a lot of wiggle room between leaving things at the status quo and divorce.
Stop equating this as "my own selfish desires."
'Cause it ain't all about the sex.
1. Stop making sex sound dirty and horrible in front of out children. Continue doing so and I will start discussing this with clergy, psychologists, family, friends, older couples, deacons in the church, etc. in order to counteract the harmful messages you are giving our children.
2. This is a relationship with two very different people with differing needs and goals. We need to establish some functioning mode that will help us arrive at ways of effectively working out those differences. I am willing to meet with clergy, psychologists, family, friends, older couples, deacons in the church, etc. to work this out with you.
3. Next time you scream at the kids for an extended period of time, I will load them all up and we'll go spend a night at clergy, psychologists, family, friends, older couples, deacons in the church, etc. until you recognize that this is something you must start controlling.
4. We have discussed rescue animals and you have repeatedly chosen to ignore compromising on this issue. If you bring in animals that cause disruption in our finances, family, without discussing it with me, I will contact clergy, psychologists, family, friends, older couples, deacons in the church, and the children and I will stay there until the excess animals that you brought in without anyone else's input are gone.
5. Continue the list with what you consider the most major issues in your marriage. Stop taking the position that you must eat sh*t on a daily basis for Jesus' sake. That sounded mean, I didn't mean it that way. It's just that you need to draw up a list for yourself ZB. And it must be things that you're willing to fight for. And then you've got to be willing to fight.
Okay, so maybe I'm going a bit overboard, but the idea that you must quietly acquiece to whatever your wife decides to bulldoze through your family is a wrong-headed one. You know, even God has boundaries. He has lines that he lays out and says "cross these and there will be consequences."
It isn't unChristian to have boundaries that have real consequences, ZB
ZB, Does your faith have any type of annulment procedure?
Fwiw, I agree wholeheartedly with MrsNOP. I think that avoiding divorce is admirable but putting up with her crap in the meantime isn't.
I know it must hurt unbelievably, but getting your own room in the house and living totally separate lives might be the way to go, for your own happiness.
Or are you afraid that if you sever the ties with her, that you will be drawn to other women and tempted to repeat history? Sortof 'the devil you know is better than the devil you don't'?
I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your reply. You are a very insightful woman. I’m not sure there’s much to be said in reply. Your observations call for actions. But, hey, I’m going to write a response anyway.
Quote: She acts nicer in public because she cares to some extent how others perceive her.
Absolutely. In fact, it’s an obsession with her. It’s absolutely crucial that there be no outward evidence or acknowledgement of any problems. In fact, there can’t even be any indication that we’re less than perfect. One time when D14 was about 6 or 7, in response to a question about what she liked to do, she told somebody that she liked watching “Titanic”. W hit the ceiling because it made us look like bad parents for allowing a child to watch a movie with nudity in it. The fact that the daughter in question had never seen the movie didn’t really enter into the ceiling hitting. The big thing was what people would think of us.
I don’t want to get into one of those long posts where I quote every sentence or two and reply to each quotation, so let me just say that I do feel like I’m being used as a sub-character in a charade that W is performing for her benefit alone. I like your scenario for trying to communicate with W when she won’t talk too. And I really, really like your suggestion to tell her that the innuendo pains me and ask her what response she’s looking for. I will quote this one though:
Quote: ZB, what I am trying to say is this. Examine closely those things in your relationship that occur repeatedly. Start devising AND practicing some responses that are different from what you have always done. If you've looked blankly at her during those times, come up with some response and see what happens.
I’m quoting that one just to add that you’re right again. It’s easy for me to think about 180’s for major things, but I rarely consider that the principle applies equally to things like her public innuendos. Thank you.
I could pretty much quote your entire second post here for much the same reason. You are absolutely right. I really wasn’t always this way, but over the years and after many, many mental and emotional beatings, I’ve become such a defeatist. I need to remember that I do have options. Thanks you again. I've copied that entire post into my keeper file.
HP, no annulment. But even if there were, I don’t know that I would do that either. Although I have said that I don’t think W has ever been able to form a real marriage bond, that’s more of an academic statement. Regardless of what she did or didn’t bring to the R, I certainly feel that we’ve been married for all these years. In my heart of hearts, I would look at an annulment after thirty years of M to be nothing more than a cop-out.
Quote: Or are you afraid that if you sever the ties with her, that you will be drawn to other women and tempted to repeat history? Sortof 'the devil you know is better than the devil you don't'?
That’s a tough one, Honey. I really don’t know. I do know that I’m already terribly tempted. I’m tempted by sex and by the possibility of finding a better R. I know a former co-worker whom I could call right now and be in bed with by lunchtime. There are times when it’s all I can do to resist calling her. A lot of times the only way I resist is by telling myself that it isn’t just sex that I want.
In reality, I don’t see that severing ties with W would make one iota of difference. What would be different?
T(rying)T(o)M(ake)AC(ase)ZB: Let’s see, I wouldn’t be having sex. R(aining)O(n)T(he)P(arade)ZB: Oh wait, I’m not having sex now. TTMACZB: Oh yeah, I would lose the EC and the intimacy that we now share. ROTPZB: Oops, we don’t have that now either. TTMACZB: Ahhh, but I wouldn’t have a naked woman sleeping next to me every night. ROTPZB: And I wouldn’t have my heart’s desire dangling just out of reach to torture me.
Nope, the only difference I can see is that I would miss out on the once in a blue moon times that W really is overcome by her physical desires.
