Daughters are 20, 17, and 14. D20 is in college. D17 is a senior, so if she can survive the year, she’ll be gone too. She’s told me that she knows it hurts me to hear her say it, but she can’t wait to get out of the house. D14 is in the eighth grade, so she’s got another four and a half years to go.
quo, I’ll never leave. It’s been covered before. I won’t. Period.
Cobra, no, no, and no.
No, the kids aren’t in counseling. Both of the younger ones have been a couple of times, but neither showed any interest in continuing.
No, I really haven’t done any reading about narcissists. I guess I need to do that.
No, W is no longer physically abusive. There’s no doubt that she’s both mentally and emotionally abusive though. The C told me that I needed to work harder on positioning myself between W and the girls – in addition to working on improving my R’s with them.
Oh, and I forgot the fourth “no”. No, I haven’t talked to a lawyer. I don’t intend to either. I’m here for the long haul. I’ll do what I can to protect the girls from the venom and vitriol being directed at them, but I won’t leave.
Quote: I wonder if your W heard his statement, would she want to stay in the marriage. Why DOES she want to stay in the marriage BTW?
This C told W virtually the same thing he told me. It was several years ago and I only got it filtered through W since I wasn’t present, but he did tell her much the same thing. According to W, he told her that she was selfish, heartless, cruel, vindictive, and a bunch of other mean and nasty things. W didn’t take it seriously. She took it as though it was intended as a gross overstatement. It would be the same as if we were to listen to HD telling us about one of Ms.HD’s rants and responded by saying, “Yeah, HD, you’re really a terrible person.”
Quote: selfish, heartless, cruel, vindictive, and a bunch of other mean and nasty things. W didn’t take it seriously
Does she seem to have even a slightly accurate picture of her own personality? Does she admit to any character flaws? For example, does she admit to having a serious temper problem? Or does she just think she occasionally flies off the handle but it's no big deal?
BTW I don't the others were suggesting that you leave the children. They were suggesting that you leave and take the children with you. Why do you think it's good for them to remain with her? I can see why you feel that YOU must remain. But why it is good for them?
Well ZB, when I first read thru your sitch, and went back thru all of it, my first reaction was the only way he can regain power is to seperate. Be a WA.
I find that to be unacceptable advise to give to someone I know personnally and very well, let alone on a BB, excepting in physical abuse.
After the comments you made today, and the C comments, I feel comfortable now saying
If I were in your shoes I would put her out. I would make arrangements to protect myself and my daughters financially/emotionally, and be gracious and kind as possible to Mrs. ZB with no anger or hostility, even make arrangements to provide/take care of/for her if neccesary in some way. But she would be out, and not coming back untill she changed or if she wants-- divorce you.
Thats my no holds barred opinion. I know how difficult this must be for you, all the things you tried, being a good man, etc.
At least your C has given you some peace in knowing its not you with knowledge, however small that peace may be.
I think of you and your hot red Duc often when I hit the roads.
I understand and respect your beliefs on staying in a marriage. Given that I don't know what your religion is... have you talked to your pastor/minister/priest about the sitch? Or is this a view you hold as your own and it wouldn't matter what your religious leader said to you?
I think I'm with bf on this one... you can leave with the girls and not divorce.
I know as a kid in an abusive situation, I used to pray nightly that one of my parents would rescue me. It really killed me when I found out that my mother had a suspicion that something was amiss and she didn't do anything about it. DO NOT BE WEAK WITH THIS WOMAN. If not for yourself, then for your kids.
Regardless of what you do personally with your wife, I do hope that you become a solid brick wall between your W and your kids, no holds barred, zero tolerance. They need you.
Upon further reflection, I have a couple more comments... Z-Bube, you are in such a tough situation, and I recognize that. My heart indeed goes out to you. You are faced with several unacceptable choices, and to me your task is to figure out the one that will cause the least damage to the innocent.
You did the right thing years ago and you have stuck with that. But what occurs to me now is that you are continuing to keep your children, particularly your youngest (who still has all of high school to get through), in a situation that is harmful to them.
I ask myself "why would you do this?"
The only reason I can come up with from what you have said is a kind of selfish stubbornness, an unwillingness to admit that coming back to the marriage might have been not the right thing to do, but the very worst thing you could have done. If you leave now, the pain of knowing that these last years of misery could have been avoided would be just about intolerable.
But it's not just about you. Must your children-- I'm talking about the ones at home-- continue to pay the price for your need to validate your decision? You admit there is emotional abuse. And yet you keep them in that sitch-- why? What does your conscience say about that? You're planning on spending the next few years being a buffer between your W and your D. How is that the BEST thing for your D? You have the power to create a better situation for her. And you are the only one who has that power. She is helpless.
I also used to pray that my parents would get a divorce and marry other people so that I might have a chance at a family life with less bickering, fighting, poisonous tension, sniping, and bitterness.
Who are you keeping this marriage together FOR? For your daughter? Or for yourself and your need to be right about coming back?
ZB, Listen to what everyone here is telling you. Even though your W is no longer "physically" abusive, she is still very mentally abusive to your girls. That is obvious by the one saying she can't wait to get out. Take the girls and leave. Protect them and yourself. Do it now. Like Corri said, just because you leave doesn't mean you have to D her. However, you do have to protect your children. There is a very young sensitive teenager that is looking for you to take care of her. Do it.
"I believe that W does love the girls, but she seems completely unable to express that love. She says wonderful things about them to other people, but she’s always fighting with them and is hyper-critical of virtually everything they do. I’m constantly having to listen to diatribes about how worthless they are, but I figure it’s better to have her anger at them dumped on me than to have it dumped on them."
--Whoa. Forgive my blunt response here but you need to get these kids away from this type of destructive, ego-destroying, self-esteem obliterating projection of anger behavior...ASAP.
And I speak from experience on this one. I love my mother dearly but she was extremely hypercritical, mentally, and, I have to admit, physically abusive; ie, wooden spoons, tree "switches", belts and the like. Your children WILL have low self-worth issues that will prevent them from being happy with achievements and holding themselves in their careers/personal lives with charismatic self-confidence and magnetism that one gets through unwavering self-assuredness. Guarantee it.
I'm in my 30s andSTILL working through all the damage I've received to my sense of self-worth. I don't think I had ever once heard I had done a fantastic job in sports, academics etc. In school, Bs should have been As, nevermind there were a paucity of As to go around to anyone. And I had loads of athletic talent (father was an all-American football player and NFL draftee who wisely chose the white collar world instead since this was the 50s)...but I lacked all confidence to make any real impact and even this 'timidity' to take over was resented by coaches and they responded by either criticism or benching to 'teach a lesson.' The further downward spiral. --Wrong approach, you dimwits. .
Well, anyway, your thread is not for my sitch (there I go again) but I wanted to show you first hand what will happen to your kids when they reach my age if this treatment from your W continues. And I blame my WA's recent cutting me loose in no small part due to this issue. I actually thought I had a grip on confidence until she had an PA with OM...
...after that, I literally disappeared inside myself, found that sad, worthless-feeling little kid inside of me, grabbed him by the hand and proceeded to kick the living sh^t out of him all over again.
Needless to say, women aren't very attracted to that kind of weak, insecure jealousy-inflicted male. It's biological and they can smell it like an animal smells danger. Look anywhere in the animal phylum. The Fs do NOT go for this and as soon as a confident, charismatic alpha male crosses their paths...the 32-chromosome genetic pull to keep the species strong completely colors their unconscious and spurs them to some form of flirtatious action.
Enough Darwinian logic. I think the C is crazy for letting your kids "ride out the storm" In teh meantime, I would sure as Hades do some major damage control on them and build them up at every opportunity. Go get "The Anger Trap" book for your W. May wake her up to what she's doing.
Even the know-it-all narcissists sometimes defer to authors with "PhD" after their names
-Stigmata-
The difference between a warrior and an ordinary man is the warrior views everything as a challenge; the ordinary man views everything as either a blessing or a curse.
-Yaqui shaman Don Juan-
...and that holds 2x true for nice guy wussies, DJ
I think I'm with bf on this one... you can leave with the girls and not divorce
No let me restate. My words mean exactly what they say.
I would put her out. get her a small apartment, etc. I would not 'reward' her with the farm and animals and life that she is used to. Nor would I uproot the girls, from their life and home.
The Fs do NOT go for this and as soon as a confident, charismatic alpha male crosses their paths...the 32-chromosome genetic pull to keep the species strong completely colors their unconscious and spurs them to some form of flirtatious action.
Hmmmm.... interesting evolutionary analysis Stigmata. And didn't you mean 42-chromosome?
