Hello all. I am new to this board. I posted this in another thread but I decided to start a new one. I am a HD 26 year old woman. I have been with my 39 year old LD fiancee for almost two years. I read the Sex Starved Marriage this week in desperation ( I found the book at my local library ). My guy (not sure how to address him) and I have been struggling with this issue since the fourth month after we started dating. Our sex life went from about 5 days a week in the honeymoon period to once a week, and now we average 1 to 2 times a month.
I read the book and I don't see a magic solution in it for us. Our relationship is great except for this problem. I generally don't have any self-esteem issues, but as a result of feeling rejected by the one I love I am acquiring new things to loath myself about on a regular basis. I can't understand why if "everything" is going great in our relationship, how come my guy isn't interested in me sexually. I am not unattractive. In all honesty I have to fight men off all the time. I work in the casino gaming industry and men make advances towards me nightly. I don't want the attention of other men, I want the attention of the one I love and adore. I don't know what else to do. We've had major fights over this on many occasions. I have threatened to leave him over this because I don't know what else to do.
My fiance started reading the Sex Starved Marriage with me (I finished it, he's a third done) and I see it as a great first step and a sign that he cares about this issue. He said that the book has made him realize how serious the issue is. He finally acknowledged how I feel (rejected, worthless, unattractive, weepy,..) after reading other women feel the same way in the book. I replied, "I've been telling you this for almost two years!," (not angrily). He replied, "it hit home when I read it in a big book." I also told my fiancee that I'm an affair waiting to happen and I think that woke him up a bit.
However, my fiancee just isn't a sexual person (he says). I always initiate sex and I do most if not all of the work. I give oral, he hasn't reciprocated in over a year. All his organs work fine. I asked him to get his testosterone checked. He agreed to go but hasn't scheduled an appointment.
So, I realize that since he is reading the book and has agreed to work on the problem (rather than blaming it on how busy I am--I told him I always have time for him and will drop anything for a romp) we're moving in the right direction. The wheels of change have started to move but I'm not sure if the problem can be resolved. I don't feel that confidant after reading at the end of the book that change does not always occur. We went to bed last night and I was really hoping to ML and he asked me "Wanna mess around tomorrow night?" In a way I felt rejected but on the other hand he was tired and at least was making some effort. I replied, "I guess so," and he got a little defensive and I explained that I didn't want to put pressure on him and make him feel obligated if I excitedly said yes. Anyway, I have come to this board out of desperation and I hope to gain some insight by sharing with all of you.
Welcome to the BB....as you can see you aren't alone, there are other HD women on here as well, myself included.
I have one thing to say right now though, and I hope you are already thinking along this line. DO NOT MARRY HIM UNTIL THIS IS WORKED OUT, if it's worked out. This is a problem that won't just go away....some beat it, some don't. But don't marry him thinking that this will simply change....it won't. If it changes it's going to take a lot of hard work, and he's going to have to be willing to make some big changes (and you too possibly) as well.
It's a great thing that he's at the very least willing to read SSM. It's also good that you two do seem to be communicating.
Have you told him how all of this makes you feel inside? My H also always let(s) me do the majority of the work when it comes to any form of intimacy between us. I have had to no-holds-barred tell him how horrible it makes me feel to feel unwanted and by that I mean I have to say. "I feel...unattractive to you, I feel unimportant, my self-esteem is affected etc.
Let me ask you this...you say he's agreed to work on the problem. What, other than reading SSM is he doing in order to work on this with you? Has he agreed to a C? Have you both thought about seeing a MC together? Also, you said he's agreed to seeing a Dr.....he hasn't made the appointment yet? My H did this too.....it was as if agreeing to see the Dr. should have placated me, but when it came down to it....I had to tell him he either needed to call and make the appt, or I was going to.
Also, there a concept called boundaries and consequences you need to begin becoming very familiar with. What will be the consequences if things don't change in this area of your R? You need to communicate clearly to him exactly what you need of him and hold to it....then if things don't change you need to be willing to reinforce the consquences (whatever they may be fore you.)
Once again, welcome to the club none of us wants to belong to. You'll find many understanding people here....many of them are very wise and have great insight to share with you....they can also be a tremendous support system.
Thanks for the insight. I have told him how I feel on multiple occasions. He really seems to "get it" after reading the first two chapters of the book. I know that getting married is a bad idea if this isn't worked out. We have talked about that and that is why we're trying to deal with the problem right now. In regards to a MC, no, not yet...maybe as a last resort. In reply to your comment on consequences, I guess the consequence is that the relationship will be over and that's already on the table. It would be a d*mn shame if this one issue ruined an otherwise wonderful relationship.
So, thank you very much for your reply. It's great to know that I have some support system and someone to chat to about this issue since no one I've spoke to (friends, family) can offer me any help because they just don't understand the problem...their men chase them around for sex. Again, thank you.
That's what we're here for. I'm glad to hear that you have made getting married the boundary/consequence. I should have addressed this before I married because the problem existed before...but in my situation there were so many other extenuating circumstances that made it easy for me to excuse away this problem. Little did I know when I married him how difficult our M would be for me. We have been married now for a little over 2-years...and for me it's been an uphill battle pretty much the entire time. If things don't change for us, I don't see us lasting....but I'm holding out as long as I possibly can in order to not break up a family.
Ok...let me throw this out there for you to think about. What, specifically, have you told your fiancee you need from him? What specific actions can he do that you will recognize as efforts from him? It's often helpful to give the other person very tangible/specific things they can do...that you promise to recognize as an effort. That way neither of you has to feel around in the dark, as pleasant as that may be.
Also, when he does make efforts...it's absolutely vital that you validate them. That doesn't mean you have to do it right at the time he's making the effort (that can seem cheesy)....but perhaps a couple of hours or a day or so later say "honey thanks for doing xyz, that really made me feel good."
In regards to a MC, no, not yet...maybe as a last resort.
In my opinion, and with what I've been through, I'd say this should not be a last resort but the FIRST resort, and as soon as possible. Maybe you can work things out on your own. Maybe not. In hindsight, I think my situation would have been better had we seen a counselor sooner. She wanted to but I resisted. During the time that passed, more resentment built up in the both of us, making therapy all that more difficult. At least he is recognizing there is a problem. He is reading the book. He has an open mind at the moment. A year or two from now he may not be so open.
The other reason for going is that you do not know what either of you has buried in your past that is affecting your actions. It is certain that both of you have things to work through. You may even be able to go through counseling, feel you have a “clean bill or health,” only to find major problems pop up after kids arrive. Then you’re stuck. DB does not deal with this aspect very much, and I feel it is one of its shortcomings. You see many people her talking about their FOO issues. That’s because you can only progress so far without addressing this at some point.
I just want to "ditto" what the others have said: DO NOT GET MARRIED, and DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN until you work this out. Women, particularly I think, have this "I will change him" fantasy in their heads, and it doesn't work. Your fiance IS WHO HE IS.
There are many of us on this board who wish that their tough choices were not complicated even further by marriage bonds and especially by children. You are fortunately that you are still single, and able to work on these issues NOW, before you make a lifetime vow to each other.
Quote: It's great to know that I have some support system and someone to chat to about this issue since no one I've spoke to (friends, family) can offer me any help because they just don't understand the problem...their men chase them around for sex. Again, thank you.
Your part of the 20% of people in SSM or SSR in your case. That is that of the SSM 1 in 5 women are get less then desired 4 in 5 men are in that situation. So your friends and family are more typical, that doesn't make it any less frustrating for you. I guess I'll be the real jerk here and state the facts. You are 12 years younger than your guy and his Testorone will keep declining as will desire as he gets older and you are building to your peak. I see you are setting your self up for a many years of frustration with this relationship as your guy will have to over come his and natures tendancies. I think your wise to be concerned, I could see where there could also come later other conflicts due to age differences. This is just my thoughts and I'm sure you considered this and have heard it form others around you. Anyway it's good your guy is willing to discuss this and see if improvements can be made. I wish you happiness.
I know there are couples out there that are quite happy to have no strong physical connection - ie they are both no-desire individuals and are happy in connecting in a non physical sense. I believe that the answer to your questions lies in the matter of the degree of the disconnect in the matter of desire.
I believe if there is a large difference in drive, partiuclarly if one partner has a moderate to high sex drive and the other partner has extremely low or no sex drive, that the chances of a happy relationship diminish signficantly.
My observation as the HD husband with an ND spouse and in discussing with others is that neither spouse really wants to "negotatiate" an acceptable level of sexual activity. The ND spouse often feels totally put out that they are "pressured to "perform" something they really do not want to do. The LD spouse will often feel that if the HD spouse truly cared about them, they would not ask for sex and that they would manage their own needs without having to involve them. Any advances are just seen as another "horny" moment of the HD spouse - "that's all they want from me" attitude is sure to set in.
On the other hand, the HD spouse becomes desparate for some kind of physical connection if their spouse is ND. What otherwise may be a caring relationship in a wholestic sense becomes bitter. The HD spouse feels constantly denied and can not really accept that his/her spouse doesn't have any interest. The more the HD spouse feels they give to the relationship, the more they become frustrated because the sex drive discrepency can not be negotiated away.
In addition to the frequency issue, is the issue that the HD spouse is usually desparate to have a two way physical relationship. Knowing that each time there is a physical connection is 0nly because the LD spouse has negotiated the event or feels guilty does not help the situation. Sex becomes a matter of duty for the one party (the LD side) and guilt for the other party (the HD side). No one is truly happy and the relationship becomes at best a negotiated relationship. This is a far cry from the relationship that most people expect when they are citing their wedding vows.
If sex drives are close, I believe the differences can be worked on and could result in a happy and fullfilling reltionship.
Anyway, just thoughts from someone who clearly is bad at negotiating a relationship.
Hi again, luvs... I posted a reply to you on Michele's thread before I saw that you had started one of your own.
I refer to my guy as bf (boyfriend).
I agree with what cobra said, counseling should be the FIRST thing you do, not the last, for several reasons. One is that the longer you keep batting at the problem the more negative thought and behavior patterns will be in place that you will just have to overcome. Also, it will let him know just how serious a problem it is. And besides, why wait?
My bf and I have been to two relationship counselors. One was better than the other (that's another reason to go now: it may take you several tries to find a good one), but overall nothing changed in our sex life.
He's seeing a therapist on his own now and I'm seeing major changes in him in every area except sex. He's a recovering alcoholic who quit drinking 18 months ago after quad bypass surgery (and after I put my foot down). My bf has a TON of personal baggage to get through. Right now I'm kind of wavering between waiting until his twin daughters graduate from high school next year before I dump him and trying to decide if I can just live without sex.
Triple ditto what the others said: do not get married to this man if sex has any importance for you at all. This situation will not improve by itself (and it may never improve even with a lot of work).
Previous marriages for either of you? Does your bf have any ED (erectile dysfunction) issues or sexual abuse (of him as a child)? Many of us have wondered if our LD men were gay-- has this question ever crossed your mind? Did something specific trigger the drop in sex? Is he having job/career problems?
I want to thank everyone for their interest and opinions. Just a few comments I need to make. First, I have a four year old daughter and my fiancee intends to adopt her--he is her father in every way but blood. My ex has no contact and provides no support (financial or otherwise). So, in regards to the kids factor, that is already a factor. I don't want to take my daughter away from the only father she has ever known. They are extremely attached and he is a great parent.
Second, no erectile dysfunction, just low desire. Physically, everything works fine. If I stimulate him, he will become aroused. However, it's no fun always being the initiator and wondering if he is wishing I would leave him alone.
Third, I have found no evidence that he is gay. Lastly, he has denied any past sexual abuse. Overall, I'm at a loss to explain this. Everything is great in our relationship, we get along well and have no money problems. His work can be stressful but I don't think that's it.
Hopefully since he is willing to deal with the problem things will change. Again, thanks for the interest.
