Following my heart....

[ValerieA]

Hey there, Don. We meet again .

Alright, first things first so let me get this out of the way.

Quoting me from my post:

"Oh well...I'm used to it anyway. There have been many times before when I didn't receive anything at all on special occasions."

Now...quoting you, Don, from your post:

"Why would you tell H to buy tires and then say, oh well, I never get anything good for my B-day - I'm used to it."

Ok.....If you're going to "quote" me, get it right please.

Can you see how different it looks and sounds by changing my words around?

Just to let you know, when I say "oh well", that's my way of letting things roll. That's my "release"....my way of letting it go, and I do just that. I believe I even wrote that in one of my past posts (I know I wrote it, but you'd have to go way back). Yes, I said that it bothered me, but I DID NOT say that it upsets me. I am NOT angry or bitter about it. I said this is the way H has always been, and I accept that. I'm disappointed for that short moment, but I get over it. That's what my "oh well" does for me.

I'm guessing when you read my post, you read it as if I was upset, angry, bitter about the sitch, and I wasn't at all. I know sometimes it can be very difficult to determine tone and emotion in writing.

Also, I never said that I NEVER get anything GOOD. He does get me stuff...great stuff...just not all the time. That doesn't mean that I have to have gifts all the time either, but I do think I deserve them on special occasions. You know....birthdays, anniversaries, Valentine's Day, Christmas...wouldn't you agree? Am I asking for too much? Is it really that hard to just go into a store and pick up a card or a little bouquet of flowers for your W? And your excuse for not doing so is always, "I just spent $$$ on a new alternator for the car", "I just made the payment for YOUR (when H should say OUR) truck and the insurance", or "I just lost $$$ at the card room last night, so...well, I didn't get you anything. I'm sorry."

I hate asking him for anything because no matter what it is, if it involves money, I will have to sit or stand there listening to how much it cost him. I feel like all I do is cost him money, and believe me, he does a wonderful job at making sure I know it.

Here's a prime example: I was getting gas one day and thought I'd run the truck through the carwash while I was there. So as I'm pulling up to the machine to enter my code for the carwash, I got too close to a post....like a guard rail but it's a pole....and it just scratched and dented the crap out of the side of the truck. I didn't know how bad it was until I got to the grocery store about 20 minutes later.

OMG....all I could do was cry. A grown woman (who was also 4 months pregnant at the time with S1) crying in the parking lot over an accident. It was an accident, and I'm friggin crying about it!

Why? Because I knew that I was going to get s**t from my H about it. I just knew he was going to make me feel like s**t. I thought to myself, " I just cost H $500 (deductible)." As soon as I saw the damage, that was the FIRST thing that went through my head.

And yep...I was right. He didn't notice what happened to the truck when he got home that day, but of course, I had to tell him. And when I did, he went outside to look at it, then gave me this look I'll never forget...an angry look of disgust with ME.

Wanna know what I heard after that?

"How can you be so f***ing stupid?!"

"How can you be so f***ing careless?!"

"Thank you so f***ing much, Valerie! Do you have $500 to pay for this to get fixed?! Oh right, YOU don't! But I do! You just cost me $500, Val! Yes, thank you SOOO MUCH!"

"Oh, you want to lay there and cry, huh?! GOOD! I hope you f***ing feel like s**t!"

Believe me, there was much more than that. And don't forget...I was 4 months pregnant during this and had a history of preterm labor caused by physical and emotional stress. I was put on bedrest at 22 weeks with my two prior pregnancies.

Did H care about that? Nope. All he cared about at that moment was the money I "stupidly" threw away, and he'll always be like that.

So anyway, back to the tire thing....It was already in my mind that I had to ask H for new tires. I've been meaning to for a while; I just didn't want to have to do it while he was away working. I was going to wait a day or two after he returned, but when he mentioned that he was planning to spend a bundle of cash on a birthday gift for me (he said he was going to order it tonight), I thought, "If he does that, I won't get the tires. Not for a while. At least not until he gets over how much he spent on me for this gift...The truck really needs those new tires."

I thought this was my chance to get the tires without feeling guilty about it and without getting grief from H. He was willing to spend a sizable amount on something for me, but if I let him do that, and if I ask for the tires soon after, he's going to be p*ssed. He's going to tell me I should've told him sooner because then he would've put off getting me this expensive gift. I would've saved him money.

So that's why I said what I said. I need the tires although they're not what I really want.

I did it to avoid the conflict I knew would come up if I didn't ask for them instead.

So go ahead. Grab the 2x4 and whack me. I'll get over it.

(SIGH)....Oh well.

Gotta get to bed now. Thanks for listening.

[cally]

Maybe with the present situation it kind of both of your faults. But I can certainly see where he kind of shames you into asking for anything or needing anything. But when he mentioned the present I would have said how nice.Or it is so nice that you thought of me. Then just mentioned to him that you need a safe vehicle for you and the kiddos to ride around in and it isn't safe if it is needing tires.

The hard thing about your finaces is it sounds like he controls the money and you basically have to ask for anything you need. It shouldn't be that way. Or at least he should give you an allowance including a little extra for things like tires or etc.

I would try to work on not feeling guilty to ask for needed things. Stand your ground with it. Raising children and taking care of a home and vehicles and everything else is expensive. What would he think if a divorce happens and he would have to give up 50% of that money of his anyway.

You may not be working outside the home. But being a SAHM isn't easy either. And if he was paying a maid and a nanny it would cost him a small fortune to pay for the things you do in the home. I was SAHM for many years. But thankfully money was never an issue for my hubby. But I am such a stubborn person if he ever acted like that I would have gotten a job and told him okay buddy day care is going to cost this much you need to pay it. I need to go to work to pay for stuff the children and I need. Or would have left the kid's with him where he had no free time at all and he would have had to babysit. It would have drove him nuts. UGH! Maybe just rock your husbands world with a threat like that next time he tries to shame you about money. I can guarantee he wouldn't be to happy with the cost of a daycare provider.

[StrongEnough]

Valerie!!!! Sounds like you had a great night with H. I am so happy for you!!! YOur H said some positives things especially agreeing in not wanting to mess things up. Shows that he is listening to your side of the not having him rush back into the house. Awesome for you!!

Sorry about the no WOWing... But..there's always tonight. If you are up to it, after the kids are in bed...test the waters. See if he is receptive. If you think that would give him a false green light on progressing faster though, then I would reconsider. Just rambling here and shooting out ideas.

I agree with cally....you are a SAHM...I'm sure if finances were that much of an issue, you wouldn't be afforded that luxury. You would be awarded spousal support as well as child support in the event of a divorce. Which, unfortunately, brings me to a rather negative point. That is, to make sure his intentions for getting back with you do not stem from financial purposes only.

Your story about the car incident. That raised a red flag with me. That is no way to treat anyone, especially your W. If this is a pattern from the past, can I suggest you pick up the Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans. Might clue you in on how to curb that kind of behavior.

All in all, you are staying grounded. Excellent job!

I had the "night away" discussion with H this morning. Went better then I ever could have imagined!! But, I won't hijack your thread with my BS.

Keep up the good work Valerie!!!!!!

[DonH]

Emotion may not always come through in a posting but it certainly seems to be in your last one. There is clearly so much hurt and pain from the past. I don't need to tell you that but it is very easy to see it. It is that hurt and pain that has to be worked through and gotten past. He in no way should have ever talked to you like that. There simply is no excuse. You should have never taken it either. You must in the future if ever he even starts to get close - put a stop to it. Tell him he CANNOT speak to you like that, that it is not acceptable and will not be tolerated. This you must do for you. You must also start to let go of the past. If you allow current actions to be based on where you and H were in the past, you'll never have a better and more productive future.

I guess I did not see though, what all of this has to do with the current sitch. and your response to him wanting to give you a gift. This is way over my head and not my place to annalize. But using the past as a response to the present is going to be trouble. Living in the past rather than the present is going to spell the death of your R.

All I can see is that a potential postive was turned away and at least pointed in a negative direction and I don't think we can blame H for this one. I know it's really, really, hard but try to lower that wall just a little bit and let him back in. You'll still be able to pull back if his old self starts to return. You'll be able to see it in plenty of time. You don't have to head it off before it starts.

[ValerieA]

Hi, cally.

You're right. I should've just told H that it was really nice of him to think of me. I've told him in the past to just surprise me with whatever he wanted to get me, but I screwed that up, didn't I?

But it was the money. That's what made me do it.

He does control the finances, and I do have to ask for what we need except for when it's time to send out the bills. I have to add them up every month then I write a check to myself from his account so that I can deposit that money into my account to pay them. Since he's always working, it's my responsibility to make sure things get paid on time. We're both ok with this, BUT I also have to tell him what cost what every time. How much was PG&E, how much was the phone bill, water, everything....and the amount I write to myself BETTER equal what the bills are and that's it.

When I need to get groceries, I have to use the credit card to pay for them, and this is the only bill he takes care of on his own....BUT of course, he still comes to me with the statement every month and asks, "Ok...$65 spent at Target...What did you buy?.....Ok, $80 at Safeway....What did you get there?....$45 at Arco...uh, for gas...." It goes on and on.

If there's something I bought at Mervyn's or Macy's, it BETTER be something I needed. Doesn't matter what it is, I just better need it. Like a new pair of sneakers, undergarments, etc. He will let me buy an outfit or two every once in a while, and he does let me get my pedicure every two weeks. That's only $25 anyway. $30 with tip.

When I get together with family, if we all go out to eat or even if we get stuff to have a big BBQ, then I hear, "Who paid?" or "How much for you and the kids?"...meaning what, if any, did I spend. Lucky for me, I'm the baby, so I usually don't have to chip in. I try, but my sisters and parents won't let me. Hmmm....it could also be because they know how uptight H is with money.

So yeah.....that's how it is. Always has been. I know it shouldn't be this way, but it is what it is.

I can't help feeling guilty either.

I never ask for anything that I don't need except for when H asks what I'd like for a gift. I think the biggest thing I ever asked for was when I was pregnant with S6, and I knew we were going to need a bigger car. We had a 2-door sedan at that time. I told H I thought it would be nice if we had a 4-door. It would be easier getting the two boys in and out of.

Gotta go. H is here.

[ValerieA]

Continuing on....

I told H it would be nice if we got a 4-door. With two carseats, it just seemed right...more convenient. Anyway, he surprised me with a brand new 4-door SUV the day I left the hospital after having S6. What a guy ! I wasn't expecting anything that nice at all. I thought we would've picked out a used 4-door sedan together. I was definitely surprised that time!

At the same time, I knew that SUV cost him much, much more than a used car would have.

I can't help it. It's embedded into my brain that whatever money H has to spend is because of me.

I got pregnant...therefore, he became a father when he didn't want to be one. So I made him financially responsible for a child. When S10 was finally able to come home from the hospital (he was a preemie born at 25 weeks gestation; hospitalized for about 4 1/2 months), he required oxygen and needed albuterol treatments every hour. He was so precious, so delicate to us that we didn't trust anyone with taking care of him, so we decided that I would quit my job to stay home with him.

So now, he wasn't just taking care of S10. He was taking care of me, too.

A little over a year later, we M'ed. Not exactly my dream wedding either . We got M'ed in one of those open-all-night wedding chapels in Lake Tahoe, and it wasn't even our idea. H's friend (mf) pretty much "dared" us....dared H....said that he would even pay for it. H looked at me while (mf) went inside to prep the minister and said, "Well...what do say? Let's do it!"

Things were alright for us. We had our ups and downs. I was working at home doing some stuff for H's boss. It wasn't a real job but it brought in a little extra income that I would turn over to H for savings.

We also lived with roommates during this time. We had them for about 2 years. It was tough for me. Not only did I have a baby and a husband to take care of, but I also found myself cleaning up after our roommates . Dirty clothes laying around the living room, dishes in the sink, pots and pans left on the stove from the night before (sometimes they would be there for 2 or 3 days until I finally couldn't stand it anymore), they'd have people over late at night making it difficult to sleep...and if S10 woke up, ugh .

I wanted out of there. I wanted us to find our own place. So yeah, I think I "nagged" H into looking at what we could do. So he did, we moved in with my parents for about a month, and then moved out when we bought our condo in 98.

I also went to work at Mervyn's part-time. H had a new job, and he was able to take S10 with him a few days a week. The money I earned, I always spent it on groceries and gas. If I had extra, I used it to buy a new outfit or two for work.

Then I became pregnant with S6. He was the only real planned pregnancy, and the only one H was truly happy about. I think we were happiest during this time even though I was put on bedrest at 22 weeks for good. My doctor said we weren't going to take any chances this time !

Anyway, S6 comes along, and once again, I'm not working, but H said he was ok with that. He said he wanted me to be home with the boys.

After another year or so, we were both feeling like the condo was getting a bit too cramped for all four of us (2 bedroom, 1 1/2 bath), and property values were going way up in our area. We bought our condo in 98 for $58K and sold it in 2002 for just under $150K. (Now, those same condos are going for over $320K, and H can't stand it. He always says, "F***! I wish we were still there! We should've f***ing waited!"...uh...hindsight, H.)

Then we bought this house for $249K. We're in a terrific location. On the inside of a court with one of the biggest lots in our neighborhood.

But we bought this house because of me...because I liked it, and he wanted to get it for me...but because of that, he now has a heftier mortgage payment...again, because of me. At the condo, it was $600 a month. Here, it was $1650 at first, but H has refinanced twice since we've been here (2002), and now it's down to $1150.

Umm...I also did some babysitting for (mf)'s brother after we moved in here. I was now taking care of 2 other children in addition to our 2 boys. Man, was that stressful ! Again I used the money for groceries, gas, whatever we needed.

Then we looked into getting a bigger car because the SUV wasn't big enough for 3 carseats (S6 and the other 2 kids). That's when we got the truck. We wanted to get a truck for a while anyway.

Then the talk of trying for a daughter started up. So we tried for a couple of months, then with H's health problems we decided to put it off, but by that time, it was too late.

H didn't want me to continue the pregnancy, but....you know how that goes.

I then told him that I wasn't going to babysit anymore because it was too much for me. I didn't want to risk any kind of stress with this pregnancy and find myself confined to the bed again. His response, "Ok, so it sounds like you've made up your mind, and I just don't get any kind of say in it. I don't agree with it, but what can I do? Fine."

At some later point, H said to me, "The only reason why I got that truck for you was because I thought you were going to be babysitting."

So another one there....he got the truck because of me. Oh, and he was now going to be responsible for a third son because of me, too.

I feel like I've cost him nothing but money, and I will continue to do just that.

I am not his priority. I am his responsibility. I am his burden.

(SIGH)...I suppose that's part of the reason why I'm working on getting my diploma (and I am getting there ) so I can then work on getting my degree in Criminal Justice and begin my career in a few years or so . I still would love to get into Forensics, but I figure if I do the C.J. thing, it's a start in the right direction. I can earn an income while doing something I find intriguing, and while working, I can study Forensics to further my education and career.

And H still tells me that he doesn't want me to have to work.

BS.

Thanks for listening.

[ValerieA]

Hey, SE and Don. I see that you posted when I was doing the same earlier.

I have to pick up S10 and S6 shortly, so I will respond later this evening .

Have a good one!

[ValerieA]

Hello, SE !

YOur H said some positives things especially agreeing in not wanting to mess things up. Shows that he is listening to your side of the not having him rush back into the house. Awesome for you!!

Thanks! I noticed that, too.

Sorry about the no WOWing... But..there's always tonight.

LOL....That might have been a possibility, but H's schedule changed and he's working the night shift for now. That's why he stopped by earlier today.

I agree with cally....you are a SAHM...I'm sure if finances were that much of an issue, you wouldn't be afforded that luxury.

Could you make a trip out here to CA and tell that to my H?

Our finances are better than most, but to H, what we have now or will have in the future will never be enough for him.

You would be awarded spousal support as well as child support in the event of a divorce. Which, unfortunately, brings me to a rather negative point. That is, to make sure his intentions for getting back with you do not stem from financial purposes only.

I have often wondered about this. Probably too much.

In the last few months, H has expressed to me that the kids are a part of why he would like to get back together again, but he really wants to reconcile because he knows that he still loves me, and there's no one else he'd rather be with.

He says he doesn't know why he did what he did, but he is truly remorseful for having done it. H said, "I....I just got lost, Valerie....I don't know how I lost my way, but I did....but now I know exactly where I want to be, and that is with you."

Your story about the car incident....can I suggest you pick up the Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans. Might clue you in on how to curb that kind of behavior.

EXCELLENT! Thank you! I was planning a trip to B&N this coming Monday with the kids after school, so I'll put it on my list .

Thanks for your words of encouragement, too, SE ! It means so much to me .

[CMNM]

Hi, Valerie.

I have been reading your thread, but not posting because I wasn't sure what I thought about everything. I know this is a tough and confusing time for you, so I am glad that you are taking your time with it.

Something you said in one of your posts jumped out at me, and I wanted to comment on it:

Did H care about that? Nope. All he cared about at that moment was the money I "stupidly" threw away, and he'll always be like that.

Valerie, Valerie, Valerie...
You don't truly believe that, do you? Do you forget where you are? This is the Divorce Busting site, where people change everyday! We all have great capacity for change. If you can believe it for yourself (being stronger, getting that diploma, etc.,) PLEASE give your H the benefit of the doubt!!!! He really seems to be trying. Maybe he is not giving you 100% of what you want, but he is trying.

It sounds like you two have lots of discussions ahead...

How about re-visiting that counseling idea?

...and, don't spite yourself by not doing it because your H was not the one who set it up. I know you wanted him to, but for whatever reason, he didn't. If he is still willing to go, how about sitting down together, going through the phonebook, and making a list of people that YOU can call? Again, I know you wanted HIM to do it, but what does it matter if you get there and it helps you?

Hope you take this in the spirit it is intended...


Hugs,

Pam

[StrongEnough]

Could you make a trip out here to CA and tell that to my H?

Now there's some ME time I could really go for!!! Minus the confontation with H.

I'm glad that you're aware of the financial benefit to him coming, but try not to dwell on it. Let his actions guide you there. It might always be in the back of your mind, as it is mine, but that is something that unfortunately only time will tell. And H sounds very much like my parents. Very materialistic. Ugh....I can't stand that.

but he really wants to reconcile because he knows that he still loves me, and there's no one else he'd rather be with.

That's great that he said that. The question is, do you believe him?

He says he doesn't know why he did what he did, but he is truly remorseful for having done it. H said, "I....I just got lost, Valerie....I don't know how I lost my way, but I did....but now I know exactly where I want to be, and that is with you."

To me, that sounds like a heartfelt apology from someone who cannot understand how/why he messed up so badly. That is a very positive sign. He knows he "got lost" and "doesn't know why he did it" great motivation for MC.

EXCELLENT! Thank you! I was planning a trip to B&N this coming Monday with the kids after school, so I'll put it on my list

I hope that you are able to get something out of this book. I have it. H wasn't thrilled to see it in the house naturally but hey, we all have to do for ourselves what we have to do.

Sorry that H's schedule changed to nights. Look at the bright side....if you are so inclined....this really gives you time to plan a WOWING that H will never forget!

Keep up the excellent work Valerie!

~SE