Following my heart....

[Becca1975]

Mine walks the walk a bit but won't talk the talk at all! The grass isn't any greener over here.

[pink]

Hi Val.

i think the feelings of being unworthy of you and the children come from the guilt of gambling. The downs these gambelers get on afer loosing are terrible. Why don't they learn? I just don't get it.

As I havementioned before my H gambles from time to time. I generally find that he does it when he is stressed; kind of like a release for tension or an escape. The problem is it goes in a cycle. He is stressed so he gambles; he then feels unhappy because he lost and gambles again. It doesn't stop till he has no money left, and then he'll try to borrow it LOL. I NEVER lend him money, (have done in the past but found this to be a big mistake..) he may need to hit rock bottom before he realises how bad things are.

My thoughts are that you are expecting too much from H at the moment. You want intimacy,friendship,for him to cut down on something that gives him pleasure etc and I think this is only adding to his stress. I say this as I have been there with my H. You sound like me a year agao. What I did was completely let go. Didn't phone him, left the phonecalls to him, Didn't make conversation with him, let him take the lead, Didn't invite him anywhere, just totally detached.

It wasn't untill I had finally let go in my heart as well as my mind...and I knew he had too that I was able to look at him with new eyes. We don't have our old relationship back. What we do have is a new relationship where both of us are able to put in as much or as little as we feel comfortable with. We need to work on communication big time but it's early days yet.

What I am saying is that you may need to let go before you can get any further with this.

My H worked 200 miles away from home and would be gone all week. Sometimes he had weekend work (exams) and we would not see hi for 3 weeks. I wanted him to give up that job badly; he knew tha but wouldn't. When I dropped the rope and stopped stressing and dropping snide remarks he started to hint he was fed up wit the job. He has now given up the bob and is working just up the road.

Weird!!


Do you think your H could be depressed?

[ValerieA]

Hey there, Pink.

You could be right....about H's feelings of unworthiness stemming from his gambling and the guilt associated with it.

I also think it has to do with some history my mom gave to H a long time ago about me. In case you're not familiar with my entire sitch, my mom told H some things about me from when I was an infant/toddler, and it was such a remarkable thing that Stanford wanted to study me. My mom was all for it, but my father said no. He didn't want me to become their 'guinea pig'.

Anyway, I never knew any of this until H told me a few years back. He was telling me that my mom told him years ago about it (when we only had S9). She was going on and on about how I could have been something great, something big, and that's what she would've liked to see happen, but since it didn't, all she wanted to see was for me to be happy. She told H, "Val's very special, and she deserves everything. She deserves to be very happy."

So after hearing this, I can only imagine how it made him feel. He probably felt that he robbed me of my potential greatness in life when I became pregnant with S9...he probably feels that he is the reason I didn't become something outstanding.

I don't feel that way. Not at all. I made my choices in my life. NOT H. I got pregnant (with his help of course ), and I chose to be a mom. He was against it...VERY against it...but after a couple of weeks of being apart, he came back....said he wanted to do the right thing, and the rest is history.

Back to the gambling.....yes, my H is stressed out, too. All the time. Right now, it's because he isn't working. He feels useless and worthless without a job. So to make up for the income that's not coming in, he's playing poker. He feels the need to make money somehow, so why not do it with poker? When you're winning and making money, it's great, right? It's a high for them. Then when the losing streak comes along, he's even more stressed about money, and he just HAS to get it back. It's a vicious cycle.

I do feel that maybe H needs to hit rock bottom to really get it....to really see that he has a serious problem....but I hope to God that does not happen. There is well over $100K in the bank, and if it was gone due to his gambling, geeeeeeezzzz....I don't even want to think about it. It is a very scary thought especially when the accounts are in his name only. It's just always been that way because this is how it works for us.

My thoughts are that you are expecting too much from H at the moment.

Yes, you're right. I admitted that in my previous post. I've heard the talk for far too long, and I've reached a point where I want to see ACTION. I am sick and tired of just getting WORDS and nothing more.

What I did was completely let go. Didn't phone him, left the phonecalls to him, Didn't make conversation with him, let him take the lead, Didn't invite him anywhere, just totally detached.

This is me now. EXACTLY what I am doing. Been doing it for quite some time, too. When I invited him to come with the boys and me for dinner on Thursday, that was the first time I had done it in several months. I took a chance, and it didn't happen.

I've been detached for a while. I can't even say "ILY" anymore. Not even when he says it.

If H did the things I'm asking for, I don't even know if I could feel love for him again. I don't know if I would choose to. Many times, I feel that it's too late, and other times, something tells me wait just a little longer. Give him a chance. Another one. Then I just want to say 'no way'. I want to move on without him. I want to file and be done because I feel like I'm wasting my time waiting for him to come around one day. When will that day be? Next week? Next month? Next year? Or how about never?

This is very hard. Without a doubt.

Do you think your H could be depressed?

Oh, I'm sure of it. He won't go to a doctor though. He won't get any help. H agreeing to go to a MC was by far the biggest step he's ever made towards any kind of help...but again...has it happened? Nope.

[ValerieA]

Pink has given good advice about making yourself happy.

Most definitely.

I know I can't have a R with my H the way he's acting at the moment, but I still long to have my needs met. He's wearing himself out doing a lot of things, but not the things that will make our R stronger. Lots of promises and saying he's trying and things will be better in the future. No dates, no intimacy, etc. I wish I knew the answer as to why they dont get it, but they just don't! So frustrating!

EXACTLY.

Very frustrating and very draining.

A big hug to you for opening your heart and telling your H exactly what he needs to be doing.

Thank you, Sheila. (((((((Hugs to you, too))))))).

I know how hard that is and then to feel like they don't care and that you've put all the effort in with no results. I also know how hard it is to be strong and how easy it is to doubt yourself when they are saying the right things and we want to believe them.

Right again. Although I know H cares when he does AOS for me, but it's not what I'd like to see happen. It's not the way I want to feel that he cares.

But what can I do? I don't feel like there's anything I can do. I can't force him to do it my way. He has to want to do it, and when he doesn't, it hurts. I feel like I'm being neglected all over again....going back to pre-bomb days.

(((((((More hugs))))))) to you, Sheila, Becca, and pink.

Thanks for listening.

[cally]

JV....

Boy he is a tough nut to crack. I guess you need to analyze your situation yet again and maybe make more attempts to do a 180.

Does he still call and come over all the time? I remember he use to call you constamtly and would be mad if you didn't pick up the phone. So I am wondering if that has completely stopped. Or if you are still making yourself very available to him.

I know you asked him to call or to not just come over whenever. I am wondering if he has accepted this. You also said you were going to do a visitation of every other weekend. How is that going. If you have done all these things to 180 and he hasn't changed at all I am not sure what more you could do.

It could be he has such strong issues himself that maybe he just feels torn. It always seems like if he has any issues you are very angry or get upset about it. Please don't get mad I am just trying to show you a different perspective. Like the one where where he has told you several times he wanted you to work or that it was important to him. It seemed like you would get upset and he had to have seen that I am sure so then he tried to back down. But in truth if he even brought it up as an issue to begin with it is something that he thinks about. This is something I even talked to my husband about because it became an issue with us. He said it is hard to be the sole supporter of a family. You have a lot of worries and pressures. I don't think your husband didn't want your baby. I think he was just frustrated at the time because I think you mentioned his pregnancy came at a time when the other two were going to be both in school and he probably thought okay now we can both work. Then the pregnacy hit which started things back to where they were for a long time. But back to the sole supporter. My husband said he always respected me when I was SAHM but there were times of resentment also. For him he did respect that out house was always immaculant. His dinner was always cooked and his lunches packed. The kiddos are honor roll students and very smart. Because I always invested a lot of time with teaching them. I ran all errands and paid all our bills. He also said he respected that I was frugral with money with myself. I didn't do extravagent shopping or unnecessary things. I tried to save a buck wherever possible. I was just a lot more frugal because we were a one income family. But those were things he always said he respected and bragged about to everyone. But he said sometimes it would creep up that I did have an easier life. Didn't have to answer to a time clock and grueling work hours. Got to be in the comfort of our home. But he said once the kiddos got into school the resentment started to build big time and this became an issue for us. He started to have feelings of thinking I thought I was this princess that didn't want to work. That I wanted to just be supported all my life.

I am working now and I can tell you I have learned to even respect him more for all those years he worked hard for us and never complained. Because it is much tougher to be a mom and also work in addition. It's a whole different world. Don;t get me worng I do enjoy it. But it adds a whole new dimension of stress to my life that wasn't there before every now and then.

I guess my point is to also look deeply to what any of his issues are. If you want to make your marriage work you can't ignore that he may have issues as well. He may be at this point where he feels you don't care what his issues are so why should he work even harder to meet your needs. He could be thinking he is doing all he should because he is being a great dad and also supporting the family still instead of walking away. I know there are a lot of difficult things with your situation. Ones that you have EVERY right to be ticked off about. Alot of words said and actions done. I am just saying if deep down you want to make it work you have to start also looking at your own flaws. That is the most difficult task of all. Believe me I know first hand because it is the point i am at now. Even try to look at the small positives when you see them. Like he could walk away completely money and all and wait till you fight him in court for it whcih splitting assests could take awhile. Sure child support would be awarded right away. But what if he did this tomorrow and it meant you had to get a job and do it alone. So a small posive would be that he has supported you and the boys fully so that your lifestyle wouldn't change at all. Another positive is that it sounds like he has been a really really great dad. It sounds like he takes them and spends money doing things with them and really enjoys being with them. Let me tell you that is a real plus compared to a lot of dads out there. Some have the philospohy that they pay their child support so why do anything else. He is doing these extra things with supporting your life style as well as his lifestyle being outside the home.

There has got to be a reason he completely changed. And a reason that he is reluctant to try. I am just trying to make you aware he could have issues built up inside him also.

[ValerieA]

Hi, cally.

Please don't think that I'm upset or angry about anything you've said. I'm NOT.

I just don't know how else or what else I could say to tell you that I am aware of H's feelings, thoughts, concerns about me going back to work. I've been aware of them for a LONG time. This is part of what has motivated me to finish my schooling...because I KNOW that this is THAT important to H...not necessarily getting my diploma but getting a job that pays well. With an incomplete education and only department store experience, what kind of well-paying job could I get? I don't think there is one. I know it, and H knows it.

He says he's happy and proud that I'm doing this...working on getting my diploma then doing another online program to earn my degree. He's been very supportive of this, and yes, he understands that it will be another few years until I am able to work. H said that he is more than fine with that.

But then again, he could just be SAYING that like he SAYS everything else. He says one thing, but he could feel differently. He says things...and he's very convincing all the time...but what if he does feel differently? Is it up to me to try and figure it out? When he should learn to say what he really thinks? Do you think it's right for him, or anyone for that matter, to just "keep the peace" and keep their true feelings and thoughts to themselves? Instead of discussing it openly and freely with their partner?

That's what scares me the most....that H wants to work it out and stay together for the kids....while on the inside, he will still be unhappy living here....that he'll wake up in the middle of the night staring at the ceiling while thinking once again, "I do not want to be here anymore."

He's said numerous times that he would come back and just keep his mouth shut for the rest of his life.

I don't want to live like that. I don't want to live with neverending doubt.

Thanks for listening.

[ValerieA]

Journaling:

H came by this morning (after my previous post) to get his mail and to take a look at some branches that need trimming in the front and back yards.

When he got here, H said, "Look...I'm not trying to start a fight or anything, but I just went to pay the credit card bill, and there's nearly $400 that you charged up in the last month....I'm not made of money, Valerie. I'm without a job, and I know I have to support you and the kids, and if you're spending $400 on groceries every month...well, I just can't do it. The money's just gonna to keep going down."

I told H that I appreciated him talking calmly about this with me, and I could understand his concern. Then I pointed out to him that the $400 isn't just groceries like he was making it out to be. It's more than just that....it's gas (at least $50 every week or week and a half to fill up that gas hog he wanted and doesn't want to sell, diapers, milk (the boys go through 2 or 3 gallons every week), cleaning supplies for the month (detergents, cleansers, etc), and whatever else comes up that we absolutely need. I always look in the ads to see where I can get the best deals for everything, so if that means I have to go to 3 different stores then I will. Plus, he forgot about the boys' costumes for Halloween -- $65 right there for the two costumes S9 and S6 had to have....I suggested at the time that they wear the ones from last year since they still fit, but they didn't want to, so H said go ahead and get them what they wanted.

After all that, H said ok then was choking on tears. He said, "I'm trying, Val. I'm really trying to get a job, but no one's interested. I've even gone to apply at pizza places. I feel like if I don't get this job with Tesoro (refinery) then I'm done. What good am I? I might as well just give you everything...every cent...and walk off a bridge...I'm trying....I'm trying so hard."

I told him I KNOW he's trying. I do not doubt that he is, and I'm sorry he's having such a difficult time. Then he sat down and started going through his mail.

After a few moments, he told me he would be back after his class to trim the branches if it wasn't too dark by then. I said thanks and that it was fine if he couldn't. Then he came up to me, gave me a hug, and wouldn't let go for a long time. He started crying and said that he was so sorry for everything...for always being so negative...for messing up both our lives and what we had.

I told him he didn't mess it up...we BOTH did...what's happened has happened, and we can't change it...we can't wish it away...but we CAN move forward and get past it. We CAN make today better for tomorrow.

We stood there in the kitchen hugging each other for what seemed like forever , then he gave me a kiss on my forehead, grabbed something to eat from the fridge, and gave me another kiss goodbye on my cheek.

Ok...he's here now. Thanks for listening.

[ValerieA]

The boys are with H and his family today.

My family will celebrate Thanksgiving tomorrow since my sister T had to work today. We're going to my grandparents' home in Merced.

I will be going to my parents' house in a bit to have a small dinner with them.

I had a crying spell earlier...I miss my babies ...This is the first holiday I have ever had without them. They will be with me and my family tomorrow, but this still hurts, you know?...I am supposed to be with them right now.

I guess, like everything else, that this will get somewhat easier over time.

Thanks for listening.

Happy Turkey Day!

[dodgermf]

Valerie,

I guess we just have to suck it up you know. I am flying solo today as well for the first time in my life. I'll talk about that on my thread, no need to hijack. Mainly I just wanted you to know that I'm still keeping my eyes on your deal.

Let's just look at today as another Thursday.

DMF

[ValerieA]

Thanks, D.

I hope everyone had a terrific holiday weekend.

Well, tomorrow's the "big day" for H. He has his interview in the early morning with Tesoro.

After bringing the kids home today, he said his goodbyes to the boys and gave them hugs. He started walking away to leave, but I told him to come here so that I could give him a hug. He did, and I also wished him luck. While hugging each other, I told him not to worry....that no matter what happens, everything will be alright. H said, "...We'll see."

I gave him a kiss on his cheek then he left.

Keeping my fingers crossed for him.

Thanks for listening.