"Their belief system is an integral part of their lives...therefore, going against it is simply wrong to them."
I agree that people should be free to believe whatever they want to believe, barring that it causes direct harm to someone else. Sometimes I do wonder if people believe things without truly thinking about them or whether they are just blindly following the words of a demagouge (sp?), but so long as they are content, far be it from me to tell them they are wrong. Belief is at its very core untestable and unfalsifiable. One can argue till one is blue in the face, it doesn't really matter.
"I respect Honeypot's stance on that issue."
As do I, thus the IMHOs and Dittos. The only problem I would have would be someone telling me that as a Christian I should believe X and Y. I'm not saying anyone did that, just throwing it out there.
"Our jobs here isn't to persuade someone to change their beliefs (for her that would be selling out and it would be sinful and that's more mental torture than it's worth), it's out job to support and help them work within their parameters."
I hope it didn't come across that I was trying to do that. I think my statements make it clear that I respect the individual belief (i.e. personal reflection is paramount).
"I cannot always look at it strictly from my own perspective....that won't work."
True, although I think everyone here by their very human nature will tend to project their own perspectives on every issue.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
That does NOT mean that you have to keep on havin babies--it just means that you cannot do anything to *prevent* conception either.
HP I actually was thinking about the female problems that you have spoke of before.That is why I posted that question seperate from my other post. My doctor had prescibed me BC at one time for female problems and was more wondering how you would have handled that. I choose not to take them but not only for reasons of the church. But it was your post regarding your beliefs that made this come to mind.
It was a lackluster weekend, as far as sex is concerned. H fell asleep on me the last..oh, say, 8 days straight. It is getting discouraging.
If I remember correctly your H had been staying up later with you and also missing mass once in awhile at the time things seemed to be getting better for you is this still happening or is he back to the same ole in that area also?
How is the finishing your schooling going for you right now? You seemed very excited about that a few weeks ago!
Why not put him in a crucible while you still care? Is it easy? NO. It puts you in one also, and at risk for loss of EC.
Had a thought for you HP, that came from a collection of your own posts today.
What the hell happened to this thread today. Sheesh.
anyways you said it had been 8 days. What do you think of saying No when he does bring it up?
You had an agreement that it would be every 3 days and for some reason it wasnt kept. Tell him you dont have EC, etc. Be honest, but DO NOT let him berate himself.
It puts you in a different type of enforcer mode, and will not be palatable to you. Let him see that also.
Tell him what you told Aeronaut. Let him know he can lose you, emotionally and physically. (though I remember you said otherwise before, Thats why I suggest this.) Have you ever told him No? Has that ever been a 180 you tried.
You can want it, and he can know that you want him, that you are going nuts with desire, and your eyes, mind are wandering because of it. that is even better actually. But the way he frivolously treats your feelings is not acceptable and untill he realizes that, you dont wnat to be 'jerked around' by his promises, and agreements that dont come thru. Its a form of dishonesty, and destroys the ability to trust that he cares for you, values you, and that he is a man of his word.
Can you do something like this without being upset? Can you stick to it untill he can 'show' you otherwise? What that 'showing' should be I am not sure, and dont have a suggestion for.
This is no game playing or manipulation. Its straight forward, honest, and a 180 with the not being available.
If you give in to soon it will come off as women change their mind with their feelings, and wont be taken seriously.
I dont recommend letters for H to W, but have you ever tried it. They used to work when x gave them to me.
Chromosphere, I think you should understand some things about me--first of all, I like to research and learn. Secondly, I do nothing and I mean nothing simply because someone else told me to.
I'm not sure why you would assume that I do this blindly and without any real reason why I am doing it.
I mb'd happily for 20 years before I grudgingly came to accept the teachings regarding this matter. I read the Bible, studied the teachings and gradually..gradually...came to acceptance about it. It wasn't easy to give it up and I still struggle mightily with temptation.
My point is that just because I say I do something because it's against my religion, you should never assume that I am doing it blindly and without looking into the Why's and Wherefore's.
I have made many decisions in my life that go against the grain of what society deems normal and natural simply because I believe that my way is better.
Now, my H. Yeah. He'd be one to do whatever he was told without so much as questioning why. The fact that Church fathers (who are also the Church fathers for Protestant religions, I might add) felt it necessary to speak out against it is enough for him. I find this attitude simplistic but, then again, it is necessary for people to believe this way or else our society would be a wreck of rebels (like me) and academics (like you) zinging this way and that. Blind followers, as distasteful as the notion is to me, are a necessary element to an orderly society. My H made an excellent Marine because he didn't question why; he just did what he was told and excelled at everything, to boot. However, that venerable institution (cough cough) was enough for even him. When his time was up, he never looked back. The people were too dumb and uneducated for him to even think about re-upping. Anyway, just wanted to say that this is not a decision made on the spur of the moment, with no thought.
Blackfoot, I must be getting better at this because, get this, I did almost exactly what you suggested last night!
Isn't that funny.
I turned him down. I wasn't mean about it; I did mention that we have NO ec going on and I just wasn't interested. I mentioned that it's hard for me to keep an EC going when the frequency is always at his level. He then started cutting himself down and I would NOT play along. I simply said, Please stop saying bad things about yourself. He continued. I said again, I don't want to hear that. (I wanted to say "it's not attractive" but couldn't bring myself to say it..you gotta understand how freaked out he gets with sexual rejection) He finally stopped.
The difference in what I did last night and what I've done in the past is that the anger was gone. I was snuggled up to him, holding him tight, and yet being an enforcer. This is confusing to him because my anger is not there--therefore, he can't get defensive.
He did mention that I haven't been that enthusiastic lately (meaning the last 4-5 days) and I said Yes that's true. I am having a hard time getting excited about our sex life when I have years of working on it, under our belts, and it still seems so lacking. It's depressing! I didn't say any of this, btw, just acknowledged that I am going thru a spell of depression wrt our sex life. He said, Oh no this is not going to be like it was before?? I reassured him No I'm not going down that road again..just uninspired and uninterested in having sex in a wham-bam style and then nothing again for 3 days.
Now I want to give my H a few compliments. He HAS been trying to show more desire, as he feels it. I would say there have been 2 times in the last week when he told me that I looked "sexy" to him, so that is major progress.
I'm just feeling kindof blah about many things--mostly resentment on my part. AGAIN. Man, I really struggle with this. It is the bane of Woman's existence. Fer Sure.
Thanks for checking in. I will write him an email today. I hate to interrupt his workday with R stuff, but I can't have a convo with him after he gets home (too noisy and chaotic with all 3 kids clamoring for his attention) and he can't stay awake at night and I don't have the time to write out a letter long hand, especially with D6 hovering over me saying, Mom teach me curly writing like that!! lol
Maybe I will anyway. An email is far too easy to pop off a trite reply and then delete it forever.
We'll see. Oh and Lillie, I did broach the sex diet thing last night and he laughed. He won't think it's so funny when I really do put his azz on a diet. I'm channeling my inner Dom. Oh boy things are gonna get interesting.
HP Ahh, the difficulties in effectively communicating through message boards, especially for someone as ADHD as me.
I never meant to suggest in any of my comments to you that I thought you were blindly following your religion. They were meant to be general statements. Nothing you have ever said here has given me the impression that you don't think things through thoroughly (wow, 4 TH's in a row!). I am sorry that my statements came across being judgemental of you, especially since I try very hard not to be judgemental.
I do think you are unusual in that regard though. Most people I know that are religious do not take the time to really think about why they believe what they do. NOTE: this is not me looking down on them in anyway though. If it makes people happy to blindly follow some ideal, more power to them. I do wish people would think more about what they are doing, but so long as they don't hurt anybody, I'll let them be. Unfortunately, often times people do get hurt, whether by simple words spoken out of ignorance or by physical acts precipitated by dogma.
There are a few "church fathers" that are specific to each denomination (Calvin, Luther, etc.), but you are right for the most part we are all cut from the same cloth. I hear what you are saying about followers being a necessary element in society. Kindof a different way of saying there can't be too many chefs in the kitchen, eh?
So you thing I zing this way and that? Whatever gave you that idea?
Let me reiterate one more time, none of my comments were intended to be judgemental of your faith. I respect what you believe and the obvious thought you have put into it.
Sorry to get your thread off on such a tangent.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Chrome, I must take exception to the blindly following. Although I was raised Catholic, I thought much like you about religion was simply a device to control people too ignorant to see through it etc. It wasn't until I started noticing that something was missing from my life, and that the devout Catholics in my life all seemed to have it. Like you, I am a man of science (engineering to more precise). It is my analytical mind that made it hard to accept what the Church was teaching, but also by taking the analysis a step further it became obvious to me that the universe is far to complex to be an accident. As I studied more about the Church I was brought up in, I began to see the consistency of the Church's teachings and how they fit into my world and more specifically into my life. The more I learn about the whys, the more I strive to accept the rules put forth by the church, and I still struggle with them. My point is that I couldn't blindly follow, and didn't. It wasn't till I stepped back and questioned the teachings AND listened to the answers that I grew to appreciate them and accept them. Yes there are many people who blindly follow, and I am in many ways envious of their blind faith. It took me much more convincing before I got to where I could take the leap of faith, and I am by no means complete in that leap either. Unfortunately, I think the Catholic Church does an incredibly poor job of teaching the faith, and as a result there is an incredible amount of misinformation and disillusioned Catholics out there.
"I must take exception to the blindly following." Actually, it seems to me from your well-organized, thoughtful response, that you are not a blind follower. You are a person who takes his faith seriously. I admire that. The people I have issue with are those that sit around saying person X is going to hell because their preacher said so. Unfortunately, in the deep rural south, there is way to much of that. I have been to churches in other parts of the country, and it doesn't seem to be as prevalent.
"thought much like you about religion was simply a device to control people too ignorant to see through it" I don't feel that way at all about religion in general. I do think that far too many (especially in small towns) churches are that way. The preacher wields ultimate control over his flock. I see a lot of the churches in the area where I live as borderline cults.
"it became obvious to me that the universe is far to complex to be an accident" Well, from a scientific standpoint, it is not obvious to me (but that is another story and a long one at that), but for my personal belief, there is just something that "rings true" about the teachings of Jesus, which is why I choose to try to follow those teachings.
"My point is that I couldn't blindly follow, and didn't. It wasn't till I stepped back and questioned the teachings AND listened to the answers that I grew to appreciate them and accept them." IMHO you are an example of a good christian then. Do you think Jesus wants our love coming from a sense of obligation. Wait a minute, there is a tie in to this board. Corri, MrsNOP and others were talking about how they felt their H just wanted sex and not all the other EC things that went with it. IMHO, Jesus wants an EC with us.
"It took me much more convincing before I got to where I could take the leap of faith, and I am by no means complete in that leap either." However, I would argue that your faith is just as acceptable to God as any other, faults and all. That's what grace is all about. But a person who blindly follows is likely to me more susceptible to "fall of the wagon" when a major life event occurs that shakes their faith. KWIM?
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
I'm channeling my inner Dom. Oh boy things are gonna get interesting.
