… Our pastor likes to show the difference between our congregation and others by saying that, if someone in one of our Sunday School class says, "I am not sure I agree with this doctrine in the Bible," the leader will say, "That's interesting; could you explain further?" Whereas some other congregations in our town might react to the same comment by saying, "Let us all pray that you see the error of your ways." …
My point exactly. The type of religion you worship has nothing to do with this. My father attends a Unitarian church. They stray from orthodox religious services, and tend to have sermons more on philosophical topics. Very interesting stuff, but geared more toward academics. There also tends to be an undercurrent of sneering at the more orthodox, blind faith religions, of the lemming mentality. Unitarians are even more liberal than you, but they can have this “better than the others” way of thinking too.
….She went into the affair to compensate for the fact that her first husband had cheated on her repeatedly. The affair was over when we met. Then the OM called her up 2-3 years after we started living together. She was shocked and when he mentioned the affair, she said emphatically, "It's over." Apparently, and I get this from a copy of a letter the OM sent to his wife after the discovery of the affair, the OM kept up the contacts and eventually talked her into recommencing the affair. It was almost all phone sex, except for 2 or 3 personal visits in a neutral city that she lied about.
This still sounds like you don’t think any of this is her fault. Why don’t you just come out and say it – “She is a completely innocent victim, preyed upon by this other man, who forced her to pick up the phone, to meet with him and spreads her legs. Its not her fault at all!” Give me a break will you!
Why was she inclined to even think about such a thing, regardless of what happened with her previous husband, if she was happy with you? Maybe you failed her? Maybe you didn’t meet her needs. Ever think about that?
How can you have strong ego and arrogance and low self-esteem at the same time? I suppose if you think it is possible, in your world it is possible.
You’re kidding me, right? Where do you think a strong ego and arrogance comes from???? Both of these are defenses to cover up weaknesses, which I suspect is low self esteem in your case. You show it in a very passive aggressive manner. What is it in your childhood that created this?
I still see a lot of rationalization in your comments and not one word of trying to explain or understand her point of view. Come on, out with it.
Actually things like repressed anger usually don't come up in therapy. Things that are repressed don't usually come up at all. As for regular anger coming up in therapy, it usually doesn't either.
You speak like someone who has a professional background in therapy? Actually, my experience (as a consumer) with therapy has been that anger does come up, at least in my case. My first therapist was a Gestalt, and we got into anger at my Mother right away. The first time he suggested that problems I was having could be traced to anger at my Mother, the therapist seemed hesitant, as if he weren't sure how I would take the suggestion. Actually, I was quite aware of what he was saying and thought it was self-evident. Anyway, as a Gestalt, the therapist encouraged me to imagine him as my Mother and express all my anger and frustration at him in her place (the Gestalt). I had been aware of this anger because of dreams, fantasies, daydreamings, thoughts that came up at stressful times, etc. In all, I have worked with about 8-10 therapists and with all of them have expressed anger that I felt toward Mother and Father, but mostly Mother. The therapist we are going to see now is an Imago therapist. If you are a therapy professional I will not insult you with a description of the approach. Suffice it to say that he (the therapist) and I both agree that I felt abandoned by my Mother and am looking for resolution of this abandonment in my relationship with my wife. Now, that is the gracious response if you are a professional.
If you are not, and are a "shithouse lawyer" (forgive the expression I learned in the Army), I will say that I do not accept what you are saying because you have no subject background.
"The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places." - Ernest Hemingway, A Farewell to Arms, 1929.
The first time he suggested that problems I was having could be traced to anger at my Mother, the therapist seemed hesitant, as if he weren't sure how I would take the suggestion.
What does you being able to “take” the therapist’s comments have to do with anything? Are you trying to indirectly tell us you’re tough enough to take it? Still trying to boost up that wall, eh?
Actually, I was quite aware of what he was saying and thought it was self-evident. Anyway, as a Gestalt, the therapist encouraged me to imagine him as my Mother and express all my anger and frustration at him in her place (the Gestalt). I had been aware of this anger because of dreams, fantasies, daydreamings, thoughts that came up at stressful times, etc. In all, I have worked with about 8-10 therapists and with all of them have expressed anger that I felt toward Mother and Father, but mostly Mother.
The first piece of real meat you’ve given. So you’re aware of this. Have you done anything about it? My impression, by the embedded venom in your comments, is no.
The therapist we are going to see now is an Imago therapist. If you are a therapy professional I will not insult you with a description of the approach. Suffice it to say that he (the therapist) and I both agree that I felt abandoned by my Mother and am looking for resolution of this abandonment in my relationship with my wife. Now, that is the gracious response if you are a professional.
If you are not, and are a "shithouse lawyer" (forgive the expression I learned in the Army), I will say that I do not accept what you are saying because you have no subject background.
Nothing exclusive about Imago. W and I have been seeing one. This has also been discussed on these boards. You’re not so special, not so smart, not so much better. You’re just angry and chicken.
Why do you feel the need to talk down to us on this BB?
Many, many, many of us have experience with a variety of therapists, psychologists, psychiatrists and the like...along with the variety of different styles/approaches. We aren't idiots, yet you insist on talking down to us.....why do you feel the need to do that?
I've got to tell you that's an very unattractive quality....I'm not talking woman to man attractive, I'm simply speaking as a person.
It's the tone of your posts that makes me not want to take the time with you. I (and I'm sure there are others here who feel the same) want to help you, if you actually want help, but I'm not willing to do that at the expense of being insulted and cut down every time I try.
No...you haven't actually insulted me today, but I have seen you do that to others who have responded to you already. (shithouse lawyer). You used this terminology, and then tried to make it ok by saying...it's just something you picked up in the military (so that' makes it ok?). Sorry, that's a prime example of when you knew you could have said that differently....yet you chose to use a derrogatory term. Why?
As far as pain and betrayal, I think or suspect that most on this board have experienced some of that. I am assuming that not all have had to deal with affairs, but I would suspect the majority here have. I am saying that dealing with that wrenching pain means rebuilding, which means tearing down sometimes. Also, since I have been lied to, when women on the board defend macho (what an overworked word, I wish there was another way to put it) posturing by USSwede, BF and other, a red flag goes up for me. More lying. You say you want a mutually respectful relationship with your spouse, but you respond positively to dominant, power-seeking, aggressive behavior. I think you are making some good points TSinA but it is getting lost sometimes in the presentation. Guilty of this myself quite often, lol. However, you yourself come off quite aggressive (obviously) and usually that is equated with a macho man (I agree that's an overworked word). Yet, you deny this macho label. I find it quite fascinating yet unattractive in the sense that you are contradictory. Are you like this irl? I can only assume so but maybe I am off base there. Are you displacing your anger onto this board? I found your anger scale post interesting. Less anger than the average person. Hmmm. Who are you really angry at? Macho men? The women who like them? (of which there are several on this board, as well as your W)? I recall someone saying you should embrace her preferences more if you want a succefful M. Why fight her on the macho issue? She has a loooong history of attraction to this type. You seem like you could be "macho" very easily from the way you present yourself on this board. Just wondering why you are so against it? And yes, women do want a mutually respectful R. Is it lying when W are attracted to that and want that in a R? I don't think so. It is possible to be macho without being a jerk. Don't equate the two. I'm still trying to learn this lesson myself, thanks BF.
Why? Actually things like repressed anger usually don't come up in therapy. Things that are repressed don't usually come up at all. As for regular anger coming up in therapy, it usually doesn't either.
If LP is a certified therapist with experience, and knows whereof she speaks (here again, responding to you but really to her), fine, no problem. That's her experience. My experience working thru problems with 8-10 different therapists (I can't offhand remember how many) has been different. I am very aware, and have been for some time, in therapy and out, of the anger I feel towards my Mother and how I feel she didn't value me (no obvious abuse; no physical or "verbal abuse", just no attention or affection). This is starting to move away from the subject. In any case if LP is an experienced therapist, fine. Her experience has been different from what I have received from therapists I have worked with. If, on the other hand, she is making these blanket statements from no professional experience, but only from reading magazine articles or from receiving services from therapist(s) as a client, then she is/you are (not GEL but LP) a "shithouse lawyer" and shouldn't be making these generalizations.
"The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places." - Ernest Hemingway, A Farewell to Arms, 1929.
You didn't answer the question. The question was why would you choose to use a derrogatory term like that (shithouse lawyer) to respond to someone....yet also use a statement saying where you picked it up in order to make it ok.
You could have just as easily said..."if you aren't a therapist then...." Using a derrogatory term like that is insulting to someone TSand you know it....yet you chose to explain to us why it was ok to use that term....rather than choosing something less insulting.
It's terms like that TS that make people here feel talked down to by you. You, I'm pretty sure, feel you are being honest....but honesty can come without degredation.
TS you confuse me somewhat....you don't seem to approve of women being attracted to "macho" men, yet you yourself come across on this BB very strong. This is just my impression of you so far, and of course not knowing you in person there's much missing I'm sure, but on here you strike me as a person with a VERY strong personality, who intentionally says things to provoke people, and who cuts people down to make himself appear more important. Now, don't get me wrong...I'm not saying you ARE this person, I'm saying that's my impression from this BB. How would YOU describe yourself, who is TSinAtlanta in an everyday situation? How do you think your friends would describe you? For that matter....how would your W describe you to us? I'm truly just trying to better understand you to know where you are coming from.
....yet also use a statement saying where you picked it up in order to make it ok.
I used the term to show how strongly I felt about someone claiming knowledge she doesn't have. I still don't know if she (in the third person) is indeed a qualified (licensed, experienced) therapist. Where the term comes from doesn't mean that much to me. Our company CO used the term to show his derision for those people who claim knowledge they don't have. There again, I'll take the origin away and just say that anyone who makes blanket statements like the previous without any foundation is an "SH L".
"The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places." - Ernest Hemingway, A Farewell to Arms, 1929.
Ok fine. Lil can answer for herself, I won't do that for her.
What about the rest of my question? How would you describe yourself if you had to? Same question applies to those people who know you...how do you think your W and friends would describe you if they were asked? There are many clues about ourselves that reside in how others perceive us...you don't need a therapist to tell you that right? The truth often resides somewhere between how we see ourselves and how others see us.
I'll say it again, "dude, chill out!" Who cares if she is a professional. Pretty much everything everyone says here is an non-professional opinion (OG_Lou talking about DIY projects notwithstanding). You are using one of the classic no-nos in debate logic, appeal to authority. A statement should be judged on its relative correctness or falseness, not on the qualifications of the person who spoke it. In other words, your statements disagreeing with Lil's anger being brought out in therapy comments were entirely appropriate. Your statements implying that she should not make such comments unless she is a therapist are not appropriate and not logical.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
