Quote: If I don't like the respect that women give here to macho comments, I don't like them and say so.
No. That is not all you did. You didn't like what you perceived as women giving respect to macho comments and instead of saying "I don't like them and here's why" you instead insulted and talked down to folks.
Why do you find it so offensive what some people may or may not like that you respond insultingly?
Is there anything anyone on here can say to you (that differs with what you believe) that you wouldn't view as an attack?
You weren't being accused of being henpecked.....Lil was merely throwing something out there to see if it fit your situation....yet you twisted her words and called them attacking, why?
The posters on this BB often throw things out there to see what sticks in order to see if that could possibly be something happening in someone's situation....in order to help ferret-out problems, or make someone think differently about their situation.
GEL, actually TS was quoting cobra. I've stayed away from this free-for-all, up until now, that is.
TS wrote
Quote: Things like anger or repressed anger usually come up in therapy, but I haven't heard that from him, so don't think it's an issue.
Actually things like repressed anger usually don't come up in therapy. Things that are repressed don't usually come up at all. As for regular anger coming up in therapy, it usually doesn't either. People are usually on their best behavior in therapy. It can take months or years before people will let themselves get angry at or in the presence of a therapist. And when couples go to therapy together, there is often unspoken collusion between them to keep the worst of their sitch from showing up. Sometimes it's the first cooperative gesture between them in years.
The question in my mind is can you reply graciously to my post or will you find something in it that insulted you so you can feel attacked? Hmmm... I'm curiously waiting and watching.
TS, One more thing: I hate macho, posturing fellas. I have never dated one in my entire life.
That is not the type of person Blackfoot is talking about.
If I was married to a person who's first husband was macho and who carried on an affair for 12 years with a macho guy, you can BET I'd be wanting to find out exactly what the women here are referring to as "macho" and how I could get me some o that.
I think it is foolish to say "that's not me" and throw in the towel. The reality is that you are married to a woman who, for whatever reason (does it really matter?), finds assertive men attractive.
You may want to work on developing your macho side a bit and see what good things happen in your R.
I read your thread alright. There’s just not a lot of background in it.
Yeh, you're wondering that, but I haven't posted anything to suggest that. It's possible, that I am very angry about that, but anger usually comes out in some destructive behavior (not here, in real life). If the anger were there, I assume it would have come out in our MC sessions. Or in drinking. Or in antisocial behavior - fights, road rage, psychosocial problems.
Like Lil says, this stuff doesn’t have to come out, at least not readily. It is coming out here. I still think you are scarred to let your wife see your anger. I also think the source of this is not your wife, but possibly your mother. Can you fill in any background there?
Going back to check your sitch, I noticed you provide only 6-1/2 lines in your opening paragraph describing your background. The rest is all about you and how you are able to remain so strong in the face of this devastating betrayal, how you are working with your pastor, how your wife is trying to repent, but the haunting details keep coming back. All this is valid, and you have been betrayed and have a right to be angry.
But I get the feeling your still refuse to express any anger at your wife, why she did what she did and what you did or didn’t do that caused her to have the affair in the first place. Furthermore, I have absolutely no idea how this could be going on for so long and you had no clue. That says something it itself. Were you never around? Did you completely ignore her? Or did you think it wasn’t possible for her to even think of doing such a thing to you?
NY survivor seemed to ask some pointed questions of you which just made you mad. You want to insist that women are at fault and you are an innocent victim. This cannot be. The strange theme in your posts is that you seem to be something of a misogynist, yet you think you are above this anger and resentment. You are big into the church. You mention plenty of times the work you are doing with your pastor. I have the impression you get at certain sense of elf esteem, even a holier-than-thou feeling by being so close to the church. Be very careful of this. Is this not your vanity at work here? Are you trying to appear holy by acting like you are working to save your marriage, trying to forgive your wife?
It is funny how I am still interacting on one level almost normally with someone who lied to me and engaged in physical sex with someone else and tried to hide it. We are going forward and I have to take her promise on faith that she wants to save our marriage and is truly sorry. I am assuming from what I am reading and what I am hearing from our therapist that the healing is going to take quite a bit of time and that flashbacks and obsessions will be with me for quite a while. Our pastor says take it a day at a time and when that doesn't work, an hour at a time.
Why do I get the feeling you really don’t want to get over this affair? Is there not a certain sick, narcissistic sense of gratification that now you’ve “got” her, you have something to hold over her head, to make her continually beg for your forgiveness, and it feels good!? And the worst part is I think you want to be in this boat yourself. Then you can be the martyr, suffering under this betrayal, and getting as much sympathy as you can. I read a lot of “poor me” through out your comments. You are not Jesus, OK? Get off the soapbox!
I think its time for an ego check, a good hard look at you. Where are the details of why she had the affair? Why did you not know any sooner? How did you neglect her? What does she say is the reason for the affair? What happened in your childhood to want this type of pity? Why do you feel the need to be above others?
In sum, I see four things: 1) very low self esteem, enjoying the pain your wife caused 2) strong ego and arrogance, thinking you are better than others in being so holy as to take your wife back, love her and be willing to work with her toward redemption 3) cowardice to fully confront your wife, which means confronting yourself, and admitting to other, including the pastors, that you are at fault and you have sinned 4) lots of anger and resentment because of the conflicts set up by the above 3.
When we began our MC, my WS also told the MC that she was sorry at how she had hurt me and wanted to work to repair the hurt. (This information is already on my posts). So, as I said, anything is possible, but look at my situation first, then make your comments.
So, now we get to attacks again. I classify accusing me of being henpecked and not having the courage or honesty to stand up to my wife as a personal attack. So anyone is capable of personal attacks if rubbed the wrong way, not just myself.
For the record, I lust after macho, posturing fellas.
Anyway, sorry for the late response to your earlier post TS, but everyone was chiming in so much, it just got lost. Basically, I think it should be obvious the differences between your posts and USSwede's (and others). They looked at someone's situation at gave their honest (albiet very direct) opinion. When someone posts their situation on this board, they run that risk, and know it (or should). The person who posted that very direct opinion has then possibly set themselves up for a very direct response from any number of people, and so on. You seem to be complaining about this happening, saying that BF has minions that come to his defense. So, in essence you are upset about something that should be obvious, and labeled people in a derogatory way. Basically all we are here are our opinions and situations. By labeling someone a minion, you effectively say their opinion doesn't matter. There really can't be anything more derogatory on a MB.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Quote: ----------------------------------------------- When I found out about the affair, my wife apologized, cried, said she was sorry and promised no more contact and to work on our marriage, said she thought we had a strong marriage. Our minister, whom I respect also, told me, "You would be surprised how many marriages I consider good marriages have had to deal with affairs. But you need to know that things in the past cannot continue, and you need to work on your marriage." Which we are doing. -----------------------------------------------
Has your wife apologized for the affair itself?
Do you have an accountability plan in place?
Do you want to save your marriage? If so, then why?
You should be extremely angry with your wife. What she did was untenable. You have every right to unceremoniously dump her. A twelve year affair is indicative of a major character flaw in your WIFE, and NOT just a lack of your meeting her needs or being 'manly'.
It is very common for a betrayed spouse to blame themselves disproportionately for their spouse's infidelity. It is NOT your fault that she spread her legs for the other man. That was her choice and hers alone. Since this affair started at the beginning of your marital relationship with your wife, then you must NOT assume that you played any role of import in her dastardly choices. You never really had a chance to prove or be anything other than an unwitting player in her game.
I do believe in forgiveness, but from a practical point of view, I very much doubt that you will mold your marriage into a workable relationship. Your wife has seen to it that your relationship, indeed your entire marriage, has been nothing more than an illusion.
I do hope that you have had a complete STD screening and that you will follow through with the repeat AIDS test.
I think you have two choices, TS. Start a brand new relationship and marriage based on mutual respect and trust, or dump your untrustworthy spouse in favor of a more proven person.
If you decide to stay married, you will have trust issues from now on, regardless of how lilly white your wife becomes. The images of her with other man will haunt you horribly for years, and they will never completely go away.
I know that you didn't solicit my opinion. I do wish you the best in your efforts regardless of your decision.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I have the impression you get at certain sense of elf esteem, even a holier-than-thou feeling by being so close to the church. Be very careful of this. Is this not your vanity at work here? Are you trying to appear holy by acting like you are working to save your marriage, trying to forgive your wife? Well, that's an interesting reaction, but if the members of our church - a very liberal one, by the way - saw that, I am sure they would get a real laugher out of that. Actually, we are Presbyterian, but in the Bible Belt. Our pastor likes to show the difference between our congregation and others by saying that, if someone in one of our Sunday School class says, "I am not sure I agree with this doctrine in the Bible," the leader will say, "That's interesting; could you explain further?" Whereas some other congregations in our town might react to the same comment by saying, "Let us all pray that you see the error of your ways." I am prone to send out emails with funny graphics and sometimes have to attach the EXPLICIT label to make sure no one is offended. I am just saying I get comfort from the interactions with others and that I respect some of the church leaders (I am not one).
As far as my being angry goes, I went on a website this morning:
NAVACO ANGER SCALE and took an anger test. I really tried to answer the questions truthfully; for example:
____ 9. You are hounded by a salesperson from the moment that you walk into a store
I usually feel sorry for the guy, or girl, because they have to be so obnoxious in order to keep their job. So for that one, I put down: 0 = I would feel very little or no annoyance
Anyway, my result came up:
46 - 55 You are substantially more peaceful than the average person
I know, "You are repressing anger anyway; you didn't answer truthfully; this test doesn't mean anything; yada, yada, yada"
As far as the details, or was I not around or whatever, it was mostly phone sex, on days when she got home from school, early because I would stay at work until 5 or 5:30. It was a continuation of an affair she had had with someone she knew in her former marriage. She went into the affair to compensate for the fact that her first husband had cheated on her repeatedly. The affair was over when we met. Then the OM called her up 2-3 years after we started living together. She was shocked and when he mentioned the affair, she said emphatically, "It's over." Apparently, and I get this from a copy of a letter the OM sent to his wife after the discovery of the affair, the OM kept up the contacts and eventually talked her into recommencing the affair. It was almost all phone sex, except for 2 or 3 personal visits in a neutral city that she lied about.
A final thing.
1) very low self esteem, enjoying the pain your wife caused 2) strong ego and arrogance, thinking you are better than others in being so holy as to take your wife back, love her and be willing to work with her toward redemption
How can you have strong ego and arrogance and low self-esteem at the same time? I suppose if you think it is possible, in your world it is possible.
"The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places." - Ernest Hemingway, A Farewell to Arms, 1929.
I have a couple of questions for you. Let me precursor this by saying...this is not an attack, let me repeat...this is not an attack....I'm simply curious.
Why are you on this BB? What do you hope to gain from it?
