In response to that, she said, "well, if that's the 'real' you, then I think it's all over."
she is checking, is it all over? Is HD done? Last time a man acted like this it was over.... she said I think, not I want or I know, or I wish. Talk about word nazis......women.....
but she isnt going anywhere, and things end up positive pretty quick, yes?
say, "want me to call realtor, or do you?"
careful with this. its a negative push. keep poking at the tea cup and eventually youll push it off the table. I dont recommend insinuations at D or seperation. They are not PMA, confidant, funny, they are not what you honestly want.
They are a supplicating request from you in return, for her to validate that she does not want a D. One second you act attractive, the next not. It confuses her internally.
If you want to know if she wants a D watch her actions. She doesnt.
When appropriate talk confidantly, lead, have fun. Frame control. When appropriate say why things are so great, and how they are going to be much better. Ignore her if she differs.
Do you ever answer a question? Is that a lawyer thing? LOL.
Blackfoot, I remember back in 2004 just how much help and inspiration I gained from this board in particular the detailed discussions we had about the SSM and PM books. It cured my SSM and at least got us ML again. At the moment I am marking time but your "Alpha male" outlook is stiring the fire in me to try to move to the next level. In many ways I'm a slightly more hairy Hairdog. I have alph male somewhere in me but she has suppressed him over the years with her strong personality and by belittling me over trivial things. For example last night when she got in from work as soon as she was in the door she absolutely let fly at me for parking in the wrong space in the driveway - what's all that about?. Also I have a tendency to give, give, give and just accept that I will get little in return. There comes a point where you start to think "This is probably as good as it gets" because the effort required to advance seems to be exponential. To move to the next level - say her initiating or even her contributing to the LM - would require such an Earth shattering change on her part that she would need a personality transplant to even think about it. Friday is our LM night but how do I approach the problem of getting her to do something more than just lying back and thinking of England? SD
Quote: Do you ever answer a question? Is that a lawyer thing? LOL.
What question? (Hairdog scrolls back in the thread...oh...this one?):
Quote: Oh yeah What reasons does she have for loving you? What ties and common LL do you have. How much history is there?
What reasons does she have for loving me? Come on, blackie, what's not to love? I'm a dependable, happy guy. I'm a great dad. I don't do drugs, smoke or drink (excessively). I don't beat her, the kids, or the dogs. We share the same politics, for the most part. I'm smart. I'm reasonably attractive. I'm healthy. LLs? I'll get into that later. But first:
You, my friend, are definitely onto something with the "she's testing you" suggestion. Last night she totally exploded when I made the following comment about the fact that we have chocolate pudding cups in the refrigerator that are "reserved" for use only in DD4's lunches, not for the other kids (her step kids) to snack upon: Well, it seems kind of exclusionary to me.
You would have thought I'd said, "you fat psycho b!tch...let me enumerate the ways you have ruined my life."
Anyway, I refused to engage, beyond the statement: "I did not have any evil intent in saying that. I was stating my opinion. It's only pudding. Please calm down."
She finally stormed off, up to the bedroom, and, after about an hour, I went upstairs and tried to talk with her. She was full of accusations, and anger, and hopelessness, and wanted to D, to move away, etc.
And I let her vent away. When she got loud, I asked her to keep it down. When she said something nasty to me, I asked her to not say that, and asked her if there was a way to make her point without dissing me.
I felt totally calm. (Is this the meds? or is this me, older and wiser?) I wasn't "holier than thou" as she has often accused me of being. I was just calm.
She basically concluded that there was too much stress in her life, most of it caused by my ex, my kids, her decision to move from her perfect career and her perfect house in her perfect town, to this job/house/city she hates. All of this I have heard before. I am calm.
I tell her, "I don't like to see you so unhappy. It saddens me to know that you feel this way. But you know, one thing I've learned from going to the Buddhist Center, from reading the books about Buddhism...the one really clear idea that I 'get' from it: the only thing that you can truly control is your attitude."
And of course she said that she thinks that is bullsh!t, that only monks are able to do it.
"Maybe only monks are able to do it consistently and constantly, but I have really found that, after the initial emotional flood of anger or sadness or despair, I can work on myself and look at it all, and change my attitude. It doesn't always happen easily, but I think it can be done. I don't know if this is the answer for you and your stress, but it is working for me, and ... thanks for introducing me to the readings and the religion which showed me that it's possible."
I wish I could say that everything after that point was wonderful, but it wasn't. I didn't expect it to be. But here's an indication that something struck home with her: Earlier in our argument, I asked her about whether she might be free during today (I'm off for Vet's day) and I'd be happy to bring her some lunch. She said "no way...do you know how busy my day is? I don't even have time to wait for my lunch to warm up in the microwave. I put it in, go back to my office to do three more minutes of work, then get it and eat it in my office while I work." Well, this morning, on her way out the door she said, "I'd like to go to lunch with you to the [restaurant]."
Wow. We just went from no time to eat with me, to let's go out and spend money on lunch. (I had purposely suggested making lunch for her to deflect any argument that we can't afford it. Smart, that boy, eh?)
So, she's testing me.
I'll let you know how it goes. I have to get ready.
Hairdog, who thanks our brave veterans, and hopes our boys come home soon.
Quote: She basically concluded that there was too much stress in her life, most of it caused by my ex, my kids, her decision to move from her perfect career and her perfect house in her perfect town, to this job/house/city she hates.
The theme of leaving her perfect life behind for a town, etc. that she hates seems to come up again and again. I'm sure you had a reason to move to your new home, but how important was it? When you discuss your job, you don't sound that enthusiastic about it, so I assume it's not your "dream" job.... How happy would she be if you offered to move back to her old dream town and job?
I'm a bit scatter-brained, so forgive me if I've asked you a form of this question before...
Way to go, hairdog! You're doing great. Your new behavior has her totally unsettled-- and that's a good thing. It's not getting her the payoff she's been used to, namely, you rushing to placate her, or fighting back.
And cobra, if you're reading this, THIS is what all of us have been talking about. This is what I meant by leaving the field. It is not an admission of defeat. It is a statement that you will not play this game by these rules anymore. If you will disengage from those fights, yeah, she may escalate at first because you've thrown her for a loop, but if you don't fight back, there can be no fight. If you stop doing your side of it, she will HAVE to do something different. It may be good, it may be bad, but it will be different. But the main point is that you will feel better about YOURSELF. (Gee, these colors are fun! )
hd, you quoted blackfoot as asking
Quote: Oh yeah What reasons does she have for loving you? What ties and common LL do you have.
If you read his question, what he asked was: What would SHE give as reasons for loving you? Not why do you think you're lovable, but if you were not in the room and someone unknown to both of you asked her why she loves you, what would she say?
Of course, WE can all plainly see why someone would love you. You're devoted, funny, witty, have the patience of a Jewish saint-- you said it: what's not to love??
Incidentally, I don't think having food just for D4's lunches is all that insulting to the other kids. Surely they have food at home that is just for their lunches that they are not otherwise allowed to touch, right?
Do they have other snacks at your house that they are allowed to eat? What about a separate pudding stash just for the older ones who are not there every day?
It's not getting her the payoff she's been used to, namely, you rushing to placate her, or fighting back. 
) 
