Re LG I read and envy most of your journalistic skills and wish I could make myself that clear.
One thing I used to do was to write something and let it sit for a day, then reread and edit my original post.
To do that on the forum, copy a post from the forum to your word processor program and past the post to a blank page. Then make your comments or give your replies to specific questions.
If you want to cover completely new ground, type your post using your word processor program and do the editing with-in the word processor program. Let the post sit for a day or at least over night. Read it the next day and ask your self, if someone that was reading your post for the first or second time, would they understand the points you wanted to make.
Some word processors have a built in thesaurus and all have spell check. Microsoft Word has a grammar checker that makes suggestions, if you want to use it. When I was attending college, I used a program called "Gram-mat-ik" as a grammar and punctuation checker. I don't know if this program is still sold. My version works in DOS and Windows 3.1. Here is a Mac version that is for sale on eBay. Vintage GRAMMATIK I would imagine a PC version will show up sometime.
And you thought some of us were born with this gift, naw, we earned it the hard way.
I liked the program because after I made the same mistake 5 or 10 times, I learned what to do so I didn't make that mistake anymore. Practice, practice, practice, works most of the time.
Just a few suggestions from someone who used to write very poorly. The idea that practices makes perfect is somewhat right. Practice leads to improvements. Perfect seems to escape me for some reason.
Thanks for everything, including the trip back to English Classes. I'm too sensitive, too emotional. He's very guarded, stoic, and stiff.
A long time ago, I cut this note from NOP and will re-visit it again and agian. I need to get some of my assumed givens, which are totally wrong out of my head.
Quote: Look within your gridlocked issue or situation and extract your own unresolved developmental tasks. Confront yourself for the sake of your own integrity and personal development. If you’re having difficulty identifying your own issues, look at both sides of your two-choice dilemma. Stop taking your partner’s reaction personally. Don’t count on your partner to confront himself/herself in return. Forget about ‘working on your relationship’ or the idea that ‘the relationship is the problem.’ Stop focusing on what your partner is (or isn’t) doing. Focus on yourself. Stop trying to change your partner. Pressuring your partner actually reduces the pressure on both of you for change. For solutions, look in different directions from where you’ve looked in the past. Reconsider options you’ve previously rejected. Stop trying to make your partner listen, accept, and validate you. Keep your mouth shut about your partner’s issues – particularly concerning things you’re certain are true. Don’t identify with your feelings. Pay attention to your tone. Own your projections as an act of integrity. Acting differentiated interferes with being differentiated. Let the best in you do the thinking and talking.
Harley writes that there are 3 marital stages - intimacy, conflict, withdrawal.
"When a husband and wife are in the state of Conflict long enough, the resentment and disillusionment they experience eventually convinces their Takers that fighting doesn't work. A new approach is warranted, and that approach ushers in the the third state of mind in marriage, Withdrawal. "
You can't get to intimacy *without* going back through conflict. While you may not have fought tooth and nail all these years, conflicts and issues arose anyway. As conflict-avoiders, you both just kept throwing them into your dufflebags. You've got a double whammy going with both of you avoiding conflict. It's like having a house of intimacy shining on a hill in the distance and neither of you will pick up the machete and start whacking through the forest to get there.
Your attempts to reach her via hugs and special events don't work because whenever you try to reach her, there are umpteen years of conflict standing in that hug with you.
Hugs and kisses are a sign of intimacy. When NOP and I were at our worst, the depth of physical and emotional DIScomfort we had with each other was immeasurable. It was worse than hugging a stranger, because I didn't have a lot of emotional garbage with strangers. I felt my "personal territorial bubble" was being infringed and he was venturing forward with all his external "prickles" on high alert for any hint of rejection. Not exactly a recipe for intimacy.
Withdrawal disconnects people. It allows that forest to grow between them. You can get used to the forest, but it doesn't mean that you're happy in it.
At some point, you have to determine if the "us" is worth fighting for. In spite of your pride, hurts and wounds. In spite of the seemingly unfairness of it all. In spite of your wife's intransigence. In spite of conflict avoidance of which you both suffer.
Because you *must* enter the forest of conflict if you are ever to get to your enchanted house of intimacy.
*Must*.
I didn't keep fighting for my "us", at some point I gave up. I was there for our child, because it was the right thing to do, because God hates divorce, because of our history, etc. - all the reasons that you stay in your marriage.
I am thankful now that NOP chose to fight for "us".
Through all the discomfort. Through all the pain. Through all the pride. Through all the tears. Through all the arguments.
I pray the same strength and fortitude for you.
Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn.
Edna St. Vincent Millay
I didnt want to hijack Cobra's thread. But I really liked you flagging me down. Cobras
Like this thread says, I outlasted my C who retired and have been C-free for 3months.
As Cobra said, you have to consciously defend from falling deeper down than you were. That little rule that goes something like, Insanity is doing the same thing Over and over and expecting different results. That Looping flow chart of dejection is all too true.
I did explode, for me, actually "hold my own, claiming that he's taken xyz out of my life and wasn't going to take conversation too. And, well things are better cuz I'm not expecting ANYTHING so getting a little is uplifting.
The other night I reacted to my normal good night kiss, reminisant of the "kiss M&D goodnight, and don't forget to brush your teeth" of all those many years ago. Lamenting the loneliness and being thankful I have figured out how to bundle myself for cozy and reasurance (similar, unfortunately to a papoose or a chile on a swadling board). Touch is so important to the nurturing of the child, and I guess I need it too.
Well like I said, the other night the loneliness bit me. I guess that's why I'm hear again.
How are you doing? You got buisy this summer. What are you doing now? Have things progressed with you?
I haven't gone back and read the board, I guess I'm looking for the Cliffnotes version from all of us.
Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn.
Edna St. Vincent Millay
In an effort not to take your thread, CAC I hope you will visit here and address this. Cobra's thread
CAC4
Has your wife tried to reassure you that you are very much the man? So much so, that in the confines of your relationship when no danger is eminent you can let your guard down and open up.
CAC, can you tell me why this is so difficult?
Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn.
Edna St. Vincent Millay
I'm making quite a few assumptions so sorry if I go the wrong way. Some guys need to be so gruff all the time. Some guys can't get soft and quiet, if you will the sip something you enjoy while holding your wife and gazing into the fire.
Or to put it another way, what did you do as you were dating your wife that lead her to say, "I do."....Do that some more.
Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn.
Edna St. Vincent Millay
On an intellectual level I understand that "touch" of any kind is not welcomed by H. I even asked him about just standing in the shower and letting the warm water sooth. His response, as in so many other 'touchy-feely' questions is, "No. I go in there to shower. Do what I have to and out" (as I'm typing this I will try to avoid any obvious jokes that just came to mind as I smirk). This could be the result of his old home with one bath or the services impact. I really don't understand fully; but, I am forced to accept it.
One of the 'touchy-feely' questions I've had is--
As you were wallowing in your 'my body has let me down' sorrows, what did you think I was supposed to do? (I guess I was fishing for some sympathy, even then.) To which he responded, "I don't know. I never thought about it."
This was such a slap to me. It’s taken me 2 years since I heard it to balance it against his perceived, I’m more considerate than most. attitude. (He does offer where he is/is going; coffee and if he can bring back things from the store.)
One more thing I need to add is that in his understanding of marital beliefs, one of the things that surfaced due to wedding ring poisoning that was not there during dating, was that once a month for intercourse is enough. Upon reflection, I can see now that I was the instigator and the sparkle of lust with the compliment of being pursued was enough for him and misunderstood by me.
Ok, on an intellectual level I understand that that form of touch, and thinking in someone else's position is as foreign to him as wondering how these things can happen to an individual is to me. Yet I WANT an apology; WANT acknowledgement of my 'sacrifice' over time before and now that the ED has totally gotten a hold of him.
Would someone address this imbalance in me and offer some help here? PLEASE. I don't want him to grovel. I just want some acknowledgement of my pain; a pain that evidently he has no empathy.
*There were many crisis with family and child that needed attending as I was considering ending the marriage on about 5 occasions. Now, well we're 'out of warrentee'; and he's stable. He's willing to helping the physical necessities of body (Dr's appointments etc) and home. He's always been good 23 hrs a day and I guess I'm getting my priorities rearranged*
Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn.
Edna St. Vincent Millay
Quote: I'm making quite a few assumptions so sorry if I go the wrong way. Some guys need to be so gruff all the time. Some guys can't get soft and quiet, if you will the sip something you enjoy while holding your wife and gazing into the fire.
I'm not particularly "gruff". at least, I wouldn't charactarize myself that way. not your typical "tough guy"...otoh, I'm not particularly touchy-feely, either. somewhere in between, I guess...
Quote:
Or to put it another way, what did you do as you were dating your wife that lead her to say, "I do."....Do that some more.
beats me. I guess it was simply my boyish good looks, and infectious and witty charm that attracted her. seriously, ours was not your typical courtship. going back there doesn't yield many clues.
naw, we earned it the hard way.
