But imagine this <snip> Now tell me...is she better off before or now? And what do you do?
What it is is that you're in the same relationship as before, replaying it.
1. The previous version of the relationship ended, and H looked back and wanted it back again.
2. It starts off fantastic again, but then when it moves past the "honeymoon" stage, H starts to distance himself.
3. He distances himself by being hostile and by throwing things at you, things that were there from day 1 that he knew. Your activities that you favor.
4. So you try to mold yourself more into his vision of what he's telling he wants, in order to have him draw closer.
5. But no matter what you do or how hard you try, it's never good enough and he distances himself further, notably, by being unaccountable, seeing other women.
6. He keeps you off balance by sometimes being loving, sometimes not.
What's that spell? "Commitment Phobe".
He can't leave, he can't stay. Ultimately, his distancing techniques will get worse and worse until you break the relationship, or he'll just leave.
You can stay in this struggle with him, but only by distancing yourself. You're not going to achieve the intimacy you thought was there.
This is not a healthy relationship. This is abuse.
Insofar as relationship expectations of being open, i.e., telling you his goings on, he's not going to tell you. He's going to restrict you from doing so and set boundaries on what you can or not say or do. This is to keep distance intact in the relationship. (what I was offering by way of advice is personally handling expectations is how to detach for one's own mental peace of mind, not suggesting that one be a doormat and accept abuse).
You made some great points. And since your last question is a trick question, I'm not gonna answer it!
Besides, what is important is that each of us are called to do a brutal self-examination and make the changes where they keep us from growing and being the people we want to become. I've done that in spades. So much so that my family members have commented on how different I am nearly 3 years later.
I made the changes for myself and nobody else. They happened to top his list of irritations, but I had also figured out that others weren't so hot about them either. To me, it was a no brainer. But had he said he wished I become a goth or denounce my Catholicism or become a vegan, I would have honored my own course and still worked on the general issues that held me back and prevented me from being a happier person.
While I'm still sorry that the outcome didn't weigh in my direction, I'm a happy person. I've changed a lot and I'm committed to continue working on the things that are problem areas (one can never cross everything off the list, ya know).
The only reason I posted today is because I recognized a dynamic that dogged me for 12 years of our nearly 15 year marriage.
I found that when I ask for what I want in terms of how I feel--and not stating it as an expectation, my results tend to be exactly what I need.
And I also believe that if Hope learns how to verbalize what she wants in the same terms, it will serve her well in all her Rs.
For instance, if you really want to sustain a friendship with someone who doesn't prefer phone chats but you do, how would you approach it?
"Susie, I expect friends to call me every other day in order to feel as though you value my friendship." Since Susie isn't a phone person, my guess is that she will bristle and feel as though I have some sort of unrealistic expectation. And I don't get to keep her friendship because I've now placed one of my expecations on the table.
Far better to say, "Susie, I know you're not a phone person, but I really love the times when we do chat. Would you mind if I called you every few days just to say hi?" I'm saying that I want to chat. But I'm also letting Susie know that I'm open to her own ideas on how she feels close to me so we can discuss further.
I FEEL statements work really well... FWIW.
But I can guarantee you that when Mr. Wonderful's foot was out the door--he didn't give a rats a$$ how I felt. It was all about him. When he was ready to engage with me again on a more adult level, I had already made changes to make things progress at a happy clip.
Have a great weekend!
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
You still need to start thinking about yourself. Pretend it's just you and your daughter (shouldn't be too hard) and there is no one to answer to but yourself and perhaps the police (if you get too carried away). Do the things that make you happy.
My Reply: Okay, for the hundredth time, I know this. It's just easier said than done. I do things for myself. I do my craft projects and I read, and I watch TV shows that I enjoy. I work in the yard. I write poems and stories. I do things with my kids. I love on my cats. I email my friends. I try to give the best advice I can to those on the BB. I do home improvement stuff around the house. All things I enjoy that I do for me, that has nothing to do with XH.
I don't do much outside of the house. I don't like bars that much. I don't have a lot of friends that like to go out. I don't like to go out alone. I'm okay with that. I guess my version of life isn't like most people's. I'm sorry. Should I fill my life with things that I don't want to do just so other people will think I have a life? That's no different that doing what XH says to do. Wes, there is no easy answer to make my life better. If I stay with him, I'll hurt. He's mean and uncaring and hurtful. If I tell him to go, I'll be broke and alone, but maybe not so lonely. If I go, then there are other issues to deal with. No easy answer.
When he gets home, we're going to talk. If he wants to leave, I won't ask him to stay. It's been four months and he's made it clear that he's not going to do anything to make things better, nor is he willing to treat me with kindness or respect. I can't live with someone who seems hell bent on making my life unhappy. I deserve more and I know I can have it.
Yes, I know that XH is a CP. Realized it yesterday when I read your post NYS. He fits it perfectly. I also now know that there is nothing else I can do to save this R, except let go. I know that he can't/won't give me what I need in a R to be okay. He will keep pushing. Well he can push all he wants, I won't be there any longer to take it.
If I detach, it's not going to make him want to love me. If I distance myself, it's not going to change the problem. I can't make XH work on himself, and at this point he's made it very clear that he doesn't see himself as needing to change.
Yes, there are things in me I need to work on. And I am. I am not the same person I was four months ago, both good and bad. I've learned to let go of a lot things. I've also lost the ability to trust and to not always look for the bad in people.
XH takes no responsibility for any of our problems now or in the past. He doesn't feel he has anything to work on. He's lost. I'm tired of playing this game anymore. I know the outcome of the talk we'll have. I know it will be over, but then at least maybe there will be a chance of saving what is left of me.
I'm only posting so Betsey knows I wasn't blasting her suggestion. I think it's a wonderful suggestion. I think it would serve a person well with most anyone. I also agree with her last statement...at that point Mr. Wonderful couldn't give a rat's a$$ what I felt. Or something of that sort. Which goes hand in hand with expectations...you can't expect someone who doesn't give a rip to do anything. That's why when I'm in a bad phase with my XW I say the problem is mine and I need to deal with it in my own way. Because I can't expect anything of her. We are divorced afterall. And NYSurvivor I wasn't blasting your statement regarding what you said. Also true. But these tools are primarily useful in the setting of two people that are at a stage where they can handle it.
I'm sorry Hope. You have had a whirlwind of emotions. Have as good a day as possible. Perhaps you should try to hold your pen under your nose with just your upper lip. Try it.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
You should know that I have the belief of what's meant to be- will be. It may not always be easy, may not always be tough. We'll get through this Hope. I know that we can. I say we because I for one am here- to listen/read, to give the hugs, to cry, to laugh, to use as a bouncing board. You have given me such awesome support and advise through the past 3 months, I can't help but be here for you. I again wish I was there to just give you a great big hug and help you feel like things will get better. Because believe it or not- they will. Someday, it will be better. This I can guarantee.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
I decided to boogie on over and see what was going on in your world. Sure glad I did.
The date posted by your name says that you have been at this for a relatively short time. Chances are your husband has been selfish and self centered for a much longer time, we just have a hard time admitting it to ourselves.
I have been kicking around for 3 years now, and still not divorce. Everything that you have said, I also could have said. I always wanted to believe the best in people, so of course I would have expected all of the things that you did out of your marriage. Everything that you have said brings me back to that place in time where all I wanted was for my family to be whole again. Sadly, all the wanting in the world won't get it done unless both of us want it to. That was a very hard realization for me.
It's always easier for other to see our situations more clearly than we do. We are so enveloped in the grief that we would put everything back together, no questions asked, just the way it was. Trouble with that is that nothing ever gets straightened out and we are in store for more of the same. When you've had some space you will most likely be the one that will realize that this was never the relationship that you had envisioned for yourself. Hard to imagine now but it's true none the less.
I remember going to see our marriage counselor/therapist. By this time I had found out about a 2nd affiar that my husband had had. Still I wanted to believe that he was a good person who made some big mistakes. Certainly he would never want to lose his family. The funny thing was that he would have the affairs and I would end up at the therapists office. She looked me square in the eye and said, "Beth, I affair may be a mistake but anything more is a problem. I'm not saying this will happen but until he gets to the root of what's wrong within him, this might happen again." Even after I walked out of her office, I didn't want to believe it.
All I'm trying to tell you in a very round about way is to pay attention and be honest with yourself. Chances are, you already know what's what and what you need to do for yourself and your kids to make life better.
Please don't get angry or frustrated with your friends here, they care about you and hate seeing him hurt you like this. They also know that unfortunately, in the end, you will be the one left to do all of the clean up work.
In telling you this, I'm not saying that your marriage can't be restored, after all there is only 1 God and it's not me. See, what I had to find out the hardway is that someone has to change the dance, and believe me it's not going to be your husband. What I now know in retrospect is that unless things change, you've got nothing. Right now he's out there and he probably doesn't even know what he wants.
You are going in the right direction. It looks as if you are getting out there and trying to make somekind of life for yourself, that's a positive. What I would suggest to even help yourself more with not trying to think about why he does what he does (because as I said above if you out and out asked him that question, he would be hard pressed for an answer) or you have the urge to contact him, instead of calling him, call a friend. Someone who knows and loves you, and who you know will be honest with you.
I'll tell ya Hope as I told just_me or whatever his name is today, when we're true to ourselves everything falls into place. Everything about your life revolves around what your husband says and does, I know that only too well. Once I decided no more, my whole world changed. There was no more trying to change myself to be worthy enough for this man who should have known all along that I was already more that worthy. None of us are perfect, we all have things that we could tweake and change and if we see something that we don't like, we owe it to ourselves to change it. That's what makes us grow and helps us to become better people. That's what I want to be when I grow up, the best person I can be.
Love is a choice Hope and I now choose to be in a relationship where I am loved for the person that I have always been, and the person that I choose to become. That alone should be good enough.
I'm sorry. There's just so much going on in my head and my heart right now. I fought so hard last year when XH told me to leave to get my life back to a happy place. I was just about there when he came back. Now, I'm even more behind than I was. I love him. I do. So much. But I can't make him change and he doens't want to change. But I want to be happy and I know I deserve to be happy.
So as best as I can, it's going to be about me now. I have somethings that have been in my mind for a while and it's time I put them in play. Yes, in my heart, deep down inside, I hope XH comes home a changed man and everything is wonderful. But I'm not stupid, and I know that the chance of that happening is about the same as me getting Wes to move to the South.
So he's a roommate now. And I will move on with my life. I'm still going to talk to him. But I'm not sure what I'm going to say. But I will before I do it. I don't know what my future holds for me, but I know it will be happy. I can't live like this anymore. And I know I'm the only one who can change it.
Thank you all again, for listening to me, arguing with me, confusing me and telling me like it is, even when I just can't take it. You all are a great bunch of people and I'm very thankful for each and everyone of you.
I hope we all didn't make your day worse. Looking back at all the posts I feel bad. It makes me feel we were badgering you when you are already down. Do me a favor, just ignore everything for the night and have fun. Lots of fun. You said you didn't like going out, well have fun in. Get a movie for you and your daughter to watch, or do make up on each other (my kids like this, I usually look like a clown or a floosy when they do me). I don't like going out much either. I am a homebody. I would rather stay home anytime. I like to curl up with a good book to read and do nothing.
I hope you can find an in between for yourself this weekend.
Tonight - run to Goodwill to drop off stuff, shop (they have great deals on books!) Saturday morning - meet GF to go shopping with my kids Saturday afternoon - hang out with parents, shopping and nails with sister Saturday night - Halloween party Sunday morning - sleep in Sunday afternoon - clean up house and boring stuff like that Sunday night - take girls out to dinner
Now, someone tell me that's not a pretty good weekend!
I'm so excited. I really am. I have no desire to talk to him and I'm actually glad he's not here. Now he is 3000 miles away and that makes it easier, so help me remember this next Tuesday!
Quote: Tonight - run to Goodwill to drop off stuff, shop (they have great deals on books!) Saturday morning - meet GF to go shopping with my kids Saturday afternoon - hang out with parents, shopping and nails with sister Saturday night - Halloween party Sunday morning - sleep in Sunday afternoon - clean up house and boring stuff like that Sunday night - take girls out to dinner
Betsey 