If she does it again, which she will if you have been a doormat for a long time
educated assumptions; When you are strong, and say things like --knock it off. stop that. she will be suspicious. she will look at you like -- is this for real? a judging squinty look. you will hear a pause. then a counter, dont talk to me like that, I dont like that, yada yada blah blah blah. It will make you sweat, you will be afraid that you are doing the wrong thing, you will be tempted to apologize, stammer, back pedal etc.
Wrong. fear caused that response, it is the wrong one. DO NOT do it. Would you put up with this from anyone else? NOPE, so dont put up with it from her.
counter reply with --I am not going to argue about it. I said what I meant.-- Then move on. We are going for a regaining of some power, a regain of respect so you can look at yourself in the mirror, and say I want her I am going to give her a chance, but I dont need her. If you take care of your needs and get your respect back that will put you in a place to recreate attraction. Not super difficult or Dr. Harley wouldnt tell former lovers to never have contact again. Why do people get back together after time apart? bad feelings fade, insecuritys get fixed. Fix your insecuritys (the hard part) and give her good feelings (the easy part).
What does she have to do to get me to consider taking her back?" Not quite right, males have to lead, initiatie, direct, be the head of the house for a good R dynamic to exist.
You mean I should mention to her that my friend saw her and the OM at the movies and when then saw him they dashed out of site?
NO!!!! OM and A do not exist. AS- IF!!
what I meant was When she blames you, accuses you of some ridiculous reason for justifying her actions or A, nuetrally flip it and tell her to take some responsibility.
Yes the nuetral came from the break free from the affair E book. Do you see how this is how a counselor or a friend or disinterested third party would speak to her about her cuckoo behavior? not angry or disrespectful. not emotionally choked up and overwhelmed. just observational and pointing it out point blank. This is actually new to me also, new idea, new vocabulary. Its not what I was doing /thinking when I 'went after' my x before reconcile. A little of what I 'knew' about attraction was faulty for a long term R. It still worked. Right up untill engaging in major love busters. oops
She pointed out your real faults and not so terrible faults of the past 15+ years, right? Well sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.
That doesnt mean get in a tit for tat, or attack her, NEVER engage in love busters. everytime you have contact with her mentally prepare yourself. You will have to preplan your convos, be ready for her predicited thoughts and attacks. Your main goal is to be attractive to her.
Why is the D not finalized yet? 'cuz I haven't done anything about it She is unable to D solely on her own? If she has she is pausing for some reason, thats good news for you.
call her say 'lets meet for lunch.' When she says why? or no. say 'comon it will be fine. nothing weird, just friendly convo
Its too early for this. forget it for now.
Tried that. WAW's response "It would be cruel to DD's b/c it would get their hopes up"
Did she say NO? this is very important detail. arguments, excuses, hemming and hawing are completely different in a womans world then NO. they mean convince me that it is safe.
How often does she initiate contact for unimportant issues? Email only about the D or DD's.
Baby steps. get her comfortable with email convos. Better for you anyway as it gives you time to consider if your replys are nuetral, humorous, attractive, or love and attraction busting.
I also think you should find some outlet where you can interact with women. Start flirting and trying out your new found knowledge. It will take courage, and thus give you confidance. Since you are not actually interested in pursuing a R you will also not be hindered by fear of the outcome in your interactions with them, and can really try out the things I assume you have been reading me talk about in the other forum. This confidance will help you deal with her, a little bit.
You have to get a grip and crush the fear of loss and abandonment you have in her presence/interactions. our inclination will be to go to far the other way. More fear, but of the self protective kind. It causes you to do the wrong thing. Its a taxing struggle, dancing that high wire, but possible.
One last piece. Do you remember how you acted at the beginning of your R? Think back, does any of what I talk about attraction mesh with how you remember your behavior then? Get back to that guy, and think/feel how he thought if it was.
what I meant was When she blames you, accuses you of some ridiculous reason for justifying her actions or A, nuetrally flip it and tell her to take some responsibility.
I think that I can see how to do this in regards to her seeing DD's more.
1) I have invited her to dinner on Wed (my night w/DD) and she said that I haven't changed at all (she interpreted this as pursuit). So I should have followed up w/so you don't want to have dinner w/DD's on Wed PM b/c we are separated? Her answer would most likely have been yes. My follow up question could have been, "Do you think DD's would like to have dinner w/you on Wed PM?"
2) DD's are with me overnight on Christmas eve, and thus are with me on Christmas morning. I invited her to come to open gifts, but she will have her own Christmas with DD's at her home. I'm trying to figure out how to flip this to state that DD's want to see her on Christmas morn and just leave it at that for her to react to.
She is unable to D solely on her own? If she has she is pausing for some reason, thats good news for you.
I'm not sure what else she can do. I know that I don't have to do anything for 2 yrs. After that she has to request a court date.
what are her actions, not her words?
Her words: If I now seem rude to you, it is because I feel that any kind of "niceness" toward you will be interpreted as me wanting to get back together with you. I do not want to restore our relationship.
Her actions: This will take some explaining. Schedule w/DD's is thus: every other weekend (Fri 7PM to Sun 9PM) w/WAW. Tue & Thu 5-9pm w/WAW. WAW drops them off at 9pm. DD's stay w/me every night before a school day b/c I think it is in their interest to start and end each school day from the same place. In the beginning of the separation they didn't want to stay at the apt. I rarely travel for biz, but back in Oct, I went away for 2 days. DD's stayed at WAW's apt for two nights. When I got back I received an email from WAW saying that she talked it over w/DD's and beginning Nov 1, they would be staying over on Tue & Thu nights. I wrote back and said that I didn't agree w/this change and so she filed a custody complaint against me. (That's the background) In mid-Nov, WAW had outpatient surgery so I sent her a get well card. Just a simple card saying get well - H. She tore it up, put it in a business envelope and left it on the kitchen counter when she picked up DD's.
I'm pretty sure that she is angry with me because I didn't go along with the custody change. Her potential perspective may be, I'm not letting her see the girls to punish her for leaving me. This really isn't true. I just think that sleeping in a different bed every night adds a layer of stress that DD's don't need.
Today I sent an email stating that DD's & I went to a concert over the weekend and that I saw someone we haven't seen in 20 some years and that person said hi. That's it. So far I haven't received a reply, but none was expected. I think that I will start sending other superficial emails to her about twice a week or so, just to step up the "convo".
What does she have to do to get me to consider taking her back?" Not quite right, males have to lead, initiatie, direct, be the head of the house for a good R dynamic to exist.
I'm thinking of myself as the conduit to reconciliation. I'm not going to call her names or judge her or criticize her. I'm going to initiate friendly, light hearted banter about nothing in particular just to keep the conduit open, but I'm not going to push her toward it or pull her into it.
What does she have to do to get me to consider taking her back?"
Not quite right, males have to lead, initiatie, direct, be the head of the house for a good R dynamic to exist.
Isn't this a confusing of two different things? The former being in a stage where re-attraction is sought; where consideration of re-entering into the relationship is desired to be achieved, whereas the latter is where a relationship is established with two committed partners?
Hey there Everyone. I want to thank you all for the good info here. It helps me quite a bit. Although my sitch is in "I need support" it's probably time to move it here as my biggest problem is with the OM.
I don't think so. I'm pretty sure that WAW is not interested in reconciliation right now, so I'm taking the lead by not shutting down the possibility. By not saying there is nothing she can do to make up for what she has done. By thinking about and identifying what, from my perception, I did to get where we are now and what, from my perception, WAW did to get where we are now. Maybe someday we can talk about WAW's perceptions and my perceptions, but only when she is ready. By initiating frivolous communication, I am leaving the door open, but not holding the door for WAW. That is why I think I am leading, however passive it may seem.
WAW filed a custody action against me b/c she wants D15&d13 to stay overnight on Tue & Thu PM. I didn't agree w/that b/c I think that it is important for the DD's to have some continuity to their school week (i.e. start and end each school day from home so that they know where all their stuff is.) Before WAW moved out, we signed a "separation agreement". In it there is a clause saying that before we go to court, we will negotiate and go to mediation. So on Thu AM I went to the see the L to sign papers saying that WAW broke our agreement by going straight to court and that the court should not grant her request until we go thru mediation. Who knows if it will stand up.
We still haven't settled the schedule for DD's over the Christmas vacation. I'm really tired of all the back and forth, but we need to iron it out. So I'll press on.
I am thinking that at some point, I am going to go thru the house w/a fine tooth comb and pack up what ever is left of WAW's things in a box and give them to her. No words, no warning, just let my actions speak for me. Do you think it says that I'm dropping the rope?
Yes, I do, if you are ready to do such a thing. I can understand why you are upset with WAW but be careful that you don't do something that is overly anti-DB'ing. Maybe what you could do is pack up some of the things and leave them in another room at the house...if she comes for them or you speak to her, you could mention you packed them up. I will have to read more of your situation to know what's going on. I'm very sorry to hear WAW filed that action against you. Keep us posted on what is going on, OK?
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
Too me it is a negative push. If you are really dropping the rope, you simply wont care. Box it up stick it away somewhere. IF she asks, tell her.
If you try to get a reaction, which this seems to be it most like wont be the one you are seeking. Be fun, have confidance, dont care about the rest. Dont seek or call her, but be ready to lead when she does. Set up and keep your boundaries for yourself and DD. Dont escalate, just say this is how it is. end of story.
PA D laws are different then CA apparently. here only one person has to file and make paperwork happen, 6 months later your free.
