I agree. I think I've spent way too much time over the past four months reading in to XH's actions and trying to figure out if they are a + or -. I think, in all honesty, that about 90% of what our S/XS do, has nothing to do with us.
I would even guess that it's closer to 100% of what they do has nothing to do with us. Anything that they do only serves a purpose for them. Maybe there's an element of regret, guilt, anger or all of those things as to why they do what they do. Who really knows?
That was the biggest problem that I had with DBing. I felt that I held on to every little word or action trying my hardest to read somekind of meaning into it. These spouses and ex spouses of ours are confused puppies who have no clue as to what they are doing or why. I think that they're figuring out things as they go. Their biggest agenda is probably trying to find that elusive happiness that will escape them until they face their real problems. We may be part of the problem, but the whole problem? Not by a long shot.
That's why I vote to fix what we can and that would be us!
An R may continue to exist b/t the WAS and the LBS. It can take the place as mere bitter ex's, as co-parents, as friends... But it can continue to exist.
Traditional and western view of the person views that each person as an island, unaffected or influenced by others. This is the root of why most traditional MC fails - b/c therapists treat the individual, not the R. Michelle's DB books do a wonderful job of highlighting how the changes in one person can pull the partner into a different way of being.
I have lived this experience in various ways in my sitch. When I've been more combative, so has XW. When I've been kinder, friendlier, so has she. Am I controlling her? No way. But do we affect one another. Yes - that's the interaction b/t the person and their social context.
The WAS can be very confused or straightthinking and purposeful. But they remain human, and as social animals, they are affected by others. Including us.
Now, grasshopper, plant that kernel of truth, and watch it grow.
I totally agree with what you just said. What is that quote or saying," that we are islands unto ourselves"?????
I have seen the same as far as my sitch goes. Most times the mood that is played out depends on how the dance starts.
I also agree with your take on MC's. Sad how we have no idea what's happening so we turn to the so called "professional". Little do we know that they don't know how to deal with it either. They're trained to get to the root of the individual problems and not the marital ones.
In the end all we can really do is look to ourselves to solve the problem or at least piece our lives back together.
Hey let me say I wish you would quit changing your damn name! Since my D is just a few paper pushes away and I keep feeling like wes, or joe, or just_me (God help me), I feel nostalgic for this thread (used to read it as a panic stricken newbie who read everything on the whole board), and then when I go looking for it's words of wisdom I can't find it because of your shenanigans.
As punishment, I get to respond to stuff you guys hashed out three pages back.
Just being me and not DB'ing sounds like a great idea on the surface, and I love that though too, which is a good sign it may be BS. Since we are apparently talking about "being me" in your reactions to others, it is important to see that the process is both time and situation dependent.
In other words, what would the real "you" do at the beginning of a wonderful relationship with a beautiful person? Not some of the things the real "you" would do after being married for ten years right? I know you have no common sense, but the rest of us would refrain from wearing underwear full of holes, skipping bathing for three days and being flatulent in public early on in the R.
What would the “real” you do if someone you liked and normally got along with was crappy to you one day? The same thing you did the day before when they bought you a beer?
Relationships do require adjustments in order to work. You have to make some personal changes to get along with anybody.
Quote: My question: Do actions speaker louder than words?
I think that is supposed to apply to you, not them. If you say you can't go on being friends with your XW because it bugs you too much, but then you keep on being friends, then your actions spoke louder than your words.
Quote: What is that quote or saying," that we are islands unto ourselves"?????
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main.
Thanks everyone for dropping by. I guess I could update a little.
I do agree BigAl that "being me" is altered based on circumstances. But are you sure that part of the problem with marriages is that you aren't yourself until they are suitably trapped in a marriage and then you start doing the things you avoided before? That seems a little unfair to not let them know you intend to wear your holey underwear or fart in public when you're married. I'm sure you know that it's within reason.
Really what I meant by that is when you start out this DBing you do 180s that sometimes are pretty stupid, you plaster this stupid grin on your face, and you act on "I don't care". While it's okay to a certain extent, you can easily take it too far and stop being true to yourself. So by being me, my XW will get to see how I intend to be for the rest of the relationship with her...be it as friends or more. That way there are no surprises.
Okay so what have I been up to: Well, currently I either hear from the XW by e-mail or phone once or twice a day, we'll go to a meal maybe 2-3 times per week, she'll drop over to the house occasionally, her son stays over occasional, her daughter less often, we hug most times, occasionally I'll tell her she looks good, occasionally a back rub, she'll sit on my lap, and once or twice I might have mentioned that I love her. Pretty much status quo and no change from 2-3 months ago. In reality, we've seemed to reach a plateau where we are friends and very comfortable together. I have mixed feelings about my relationship. It's nice to do things with someone I'm completely familiar with. Basically it's like going on a date with your wife...you can very easily be yourself. On the other hand I'm starting to come to a point that when I think about a marriage to her again that I'm not that excited with the prospect. I enjoy my independence and free time. I even dread the possibility that I'll drive home from work and she'll be there.
I think she'll probably be moving away when the school year is over. She says she isn't sure yet, but she has expressed that she would prefer not living here and she doesn't have a full time job. I told her yesterday that I didn't wanted her to find a job that she would find fulfilling and I'd be fine with her moving away. I think if she was back with me that from a professional/personal standpoint that she wouldn't be satisfied. I hope she finds something that interests her. Right now I feel like we just wouldn't work out. Friends is enough.
It's really hard to express my feelings. I'm not even sure I have a handle on them. As Bruce always says, I've never really been divorced from her or her from me. We haven't cut the cord. Possibly the pseudo-DBing I did kept things in limbo land. Personally I'm not completely disappointed in how things worked out. If we had went our separate ways I probably would have pined for her longer. And if she had actually come back to the marriage I don't know if we could have made it work. Part of the reason I don't bother writing is that things haven't changed really except the rollercoaster has kind of settled into a minor kiddie ride. No big ups and downs really. I think that the hills are bigger when your mood hangs on whether you are acheiving success or not in getting your spouse back. When you are mostly indifferent to the future of the relationship it's much easier not to worry about ups and downs.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Sounds like the friendship is being built nicely. This is a big change from what you described in early springtime, no?
The job issue is sizable, but what did she do in terms of employment during the M? I wonder if assuming she'll move away will flavor your behavior/attitude toward her and your friendship. Kind of like bothering to get to know other apartment dwellers cause they'll just be moving at lease's end anyway. I have found that even friendships are sizable considerations when one thinks about relocating.
I'm glad the oscillations are reduced on the rollercoaster, but even an oscillating path can move upward over time.
