I knew that was coming and exactly what you would say.
I think there is a difference in this post. I know I've previously justified, and I'm doing so now, that doesn't matter. The difference is that before I was always thinking "is this getting me closer to my XW or further away" and justified it as "getting me closer"; this time I have a different focus, my own happiness with only that as the end result. It doesn't really matter to me if "that's what works" or if that's not what works. As we've harped on 100,000,000 times, we don't know what they are thinking and we have absolutely no control over our XS. We only can control ourselves. So I'll be myself.
Let me elaborate a bit. I do believe that when I withdraw, act more aloof, say we can't be friends, don't pick up the phone, what have you, that she does come around. But in those settings I feel like when she does that I'm being this friendly but somewhat closed-in, aloof person that I'm not, at least to people I know well. That I'm some actor reading the script of DB and playing a role, but playing it false to myself. And I start to feel worse...stressed or just vaguely unsettled like something is wrong. So you could say that's what works I should stick to it, but I don't feel like myself. When I act the way that's more me...you know, answer the phone, talk to her as though I'm pleased to hear her (which I am), have a regular conversation without thinking "I should wrap this up so she doesn't think I'm whipped" then I feel good, even if the end result is that she moved further away. And I feel good even if days elapse before anything else happens. I go on with my days without worrying..."what effect did that unnatural action have on her?" If I was myself then I don't worry about it. I'm just better to my kids, other people, collegues, even you guys here, when I'm the way I am.
Bruce, the getting together, initiating, going to dinner, going to movies, calling, whatever IS my true self. So is the side that gets frustrated. I can live with both. I just don't want to act in a way that isn't me. That makes me unhappy.
And I'm not getting down on you. You have never made any suggestions on acting in one way or another. I do not remember a single time where you said...don't call, don't write...don't give her a b-day present...or really anything of that kind. You have basically commented on my behavior and what it means. And you are right...do what works for me. So I'll be just me. And odds are that I won't "get the girl", but I'll get one that loves me for me eventually. This is the most likely scenario and I'm good with that too.
Thanks
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Hey there, err, what's your name today? (Lots of happy faces from the Gabester)
I just don't get it. The cycling, that is. You seem to do wonderfully in this I'm happy with myself and detachment mode, and your R with her seems to go well in terms of positivity, etc..., then you periodically get frustrated with the limits of the R (just friendship for now), and you withdraw - for a bit.
If it were me, or actually you, Me (or I? ), I'd be 'myself' by allowing such periodic withdrawals when the pain or hurt became too much, and then rejoin when I was ready. You both seem to do much better with positivity.
My take is that pursuit is besides the point - to a certain extent - as is much of our early-stage DB steps. At this level, it seems to be about the WAS doing their work, and the LBS keeping things together and hopefully growing as individuals in the meanwhile, later deciding whether another try is worthwhile if that options arises.
The incorporation of DBing that seems important now is the GAL work, and the self-care that maintains as much positivity as possible - for oneself or Me first, and your XW and others second.
Uh uh...no plan. Not one single solitary list that involves anything that I should do or even that I want to do.
I'm just going with the flow for now. Do things I enjoy and try to work on some of things I'm interested in when I'm interested in them, but right now I'm not making an effort to say..."part of my GAL is to go to the gym 3x per week, write 1 hour per week in my book, and take a culinary class because I really shouldn't eat out so much". I would like to go to the gym again at some point, but I'm not going to think about it. I'm not going to say.."I should have written more last week" or kick myself because I suck at cooking for myself. I guess I'm in I'm not DBing anymore mode. At least for awhile. Discipline may be in my future, but I'm as a rule a little spontaneous rather than a big list guy. I'm not going to analyze this R anymore. If it is a cycle then so be it, but it won't be because I made some decision based on "shaking things up" to see what happens or trying a 180. If my XW gets sick of me and doesn't want friendship anymore it wasn't because I was this fake international man of mystery with big plans for his future. If I get frustrated then so be it. That's me too.
The only thing I'm interested in at the moment is volleyball tonight, whether the other team will have cute girls, and whether I should just look at the strippers in Vegas or actually get a lap dance.
Wow, I degenerated.
Thanks
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
One more thing...I didn't mean to imply I'm going to be a crazy man or anything and do whatever I damn well please. I'll be myself to the extent it doesn't infringe on others rights. I'm just saying...no more "Joe act in a fake way" or "Joe do this because DB says so".
But that's not the reason for this post. I ran across this daily OM that clearly provides further justification for expressing myself. Go argue with the daily OM people.
Quote: October 20, 2005 Letting Your Soul Be Heard Being Witnessed When we allow ourselves to be witnessed by another, we cannot help but be transformed by the experience. Whether we are sharing a personal experience, standing in front of friends to celebrate a special occasion, or expressing our unbridled joy or sorrow in front of a loved one, we are allowing ourselves to be seen and experienced in a very intimate way. Not only are we baring ourselves to someone else, but we are allowing that person to hold a very specific kind of space with us so this powerful act can take place. To be witnessed is to let ourselves be seen as we truly are in that moment.
Our friends and loved ones can easily be witnesses for us, if only we are brave enough to let them. Your next birthday may be the perfect occasion to experience this sacred act: Invite your friends and loved ones to your special day. During the celebration, stand in front of them and thank them for being there for you. Feel their gratitude, attention, warmth, and support, while noticing the sense of safety you feel as they surround you. If you feel inspired, share your innermost thoughts about the day and your life. You may be surprised at the feelings of peace and validation that arise within you, when you feel safe enough to go deep into your soul and share yourself with those you trust.
Anyone who has ever seen love, admiration, acceptance, or appreciation reflected in a friend or loved one's eyes knows how transformative that experience can be. When you bare yourself to another, you are giving them the gift of you and showing them that they also matter. In letting yourself be witnessed, you are letting others into your intimate space, stepping in the sacred container they have created for you, and creating a cauldron of positive affirmation, support, love, and goodwill that will stay with you forever.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Quote: And odds are that I won't "get the girl", but I'll get one that loves me for me eventually. This is the most likely scenario and I'm good with that too.
Mr ????, I think this is very smart thinking!!!! I sucked at DBing, also. It felt too fake. I couldn't respect myself for some of the things that were expected of me. However, after my XH and I split, I didn't want him back so I'm somewhat different in that respect.
And yes, I am keeping it real. That's what I'm about these days...being real.
I'm not exactly DBing anymore. I don't think about whether I'm pursuing or whether some action pushes her away or pulls her closer. I'm not doing 180's, LRT, going dark, or any other technique that doesn't feel like me. Things between my XW and myself are status quo. We are divorced. I'm generally happy. And life in general is pretty good. What more could I ask? And no, I'm not doing any GAL activities that I don't think I can sustain.
Any questions?
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
My question: Do actions speaker louder than words?
In the DB world it sure seems as though we imagine they do. We look at these little subtle things (ie my XW appears depressed) and try to interpret it. In the case of an XW that appears to us depressed we make so many assumptions...their facial expression/demeanor is one of depression/unhappiness when perhaps it's just tiredness. Then we assume it's about us or even about the divorce (ie they are figuring out divorce isn't all that peachy) when perhaps it's work stress or a different relationship altogether. The spouse may even be making it clear that they want to keep us at arms length because they know our feelings for him/her. Or they say/do something nice and we think it means our WAS/XS cares for us. We do the same with negative things. Actions are so subject to interpretation. And what's worse, they are subject to the interpretation of the LBS and whatsmore, a person of the opposite sex. If we are to believe we don't even speak the same language, ala Mars and Venus, why would we imagine we could speak the same language when it's non-verbal cues? It's my opinion that unless the action is glaringly discrepant from the words, trying to interpret an action is misleading and even then there may be alternative explanations. What do you think?
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
And odds are that I won't "get the girl", but I'll get one that loves me for me eventually. 
), I'd be 'myself' by allowing such periodic withdrawals when the pain or hurt became too much, and then rejoin when I was ready. You both seem to do much better with positivity. 
