Quote: Interesting. So, your contention is that in Hairy's silence, his not rocking the boat etc... Mrs. HD assumes that she is just the stellar spouse in all areas but the bedroom. Hairy, on the other hand is clearly deficient because there are so many things that she regularly complains about.
I watched a program last night called "Love on the Rocks". It had two segments featuring 2 couples. They do what the other sex fixing show whose name escapes me - they put several cameras in the home so they can observe the interaction.
The first couple had 3 children and the marriage was falling apart. The 3 little girls were tailing dad around clamoring for his attention and it was clear that he considered them an irritant. Both parents worked full-time, but mom was pulling the load on errands and house work. One scene showed them on the couch and she was telling him that he had hurt her feelings recently by insulting her in public. He then proceeded to tell her that she really did look like Shamu and that it was very funny and she just needed to get a sense of humor. When she continued to protest that it wasn't funny, he then went on to tell her "you're right, you don't look like Shamu, with that haircut, you look more like Quasimodo" and then he went into a rant that included several variations of "you're an f'ing FITB". She expressed how tired she was several times, at one point he asked her what she wanted from him and she said, "sympathy". He then mockingly stroked her arm 3 times while repeating the word "sympathy".
The second couple had been married for about 3 years, and he had last had sex with her back sometime in 2004 around the time of the NBA playoffs. She wouldn't let him sleep in her bed, her normal tone of conversation was at about 120 decibels, and she was constantly telling him that she thought that he was making her skin breakout everytime he inadvertantly brushed up against her. Her most horrific scene showed her in the kitchen, screaming at him at the top of her lungs "shut up, shut the F up, shut up shut up shut up, just Fing shut up..." rinse and repeat.
The marital counselor told him to stop sleeping on the couch. That wife was acting as if the marriage bed was a privilege which he must earn. The counselor then said, "Sleeping in the marriage bed is a right, not a privilege that must be earned." Counselor told her that if she didn't want to sleep with him, that *she* could go sleep on the couch. Husband pointed out that he really didn't have much sexual desire anymore and the counselor replied that continued rejection can destroy desire. The husband frankly came across as a whipped dog, with a smile pasted on his face and his greatest wish for the marriage? "I just want her to be nice to me."
Why am I telling you all this? Well, it's in response to the thought that the spouse must know what they are doing. I used to think the same thing, but now I'm not so sure.
I think some people's meter is so off they can't gauge accurately what they are doing or how off the plumb their thought process really is. I think some people can get such a sense of entitlement that they feel justified in lashing out at their spouse however they want.
Both of these abusive spouse's were shocked *at their own recorded behavior* but felt totally justified at the time they were engaging in it.
I think some people's internal mirror is broken. I'm not sure they can ever be reached by words, appeals or examples. Perhaps only seeing it with other's watching for critique will help them actually look at themselves and their actions.
I think we all realize that our spouses's can't hear what we *are* saying at times - I think all of us have experienced that.
Well, what if one spouse *isn't saying anything*?
We all have our idea of how we should treat other people. It's abundantly clear that our spouse may not have the same standard.
HD has been given a litany of things he must change or attend to.
MsNop: I'm not actually certain what you're getting at. Do you mean, what is on my list that I "want" from W? That's pretty clear: The actual list I gave W had things like, respect my boundaries, be a good role model for our kids(e.g. be mom-like to your stepkids, because their mom isn't very mommish), treat me as an adult, more physical touch, make love to me. Her list was manage my ex, stay within budget, follow through on agreements, give her space, continue my spiritual exploration, be honest.
I don't think either one of the extreme examples in the tv show you watched are like my sitch, although, both of them have elements of my sitch: lack of sympathy (especially regarding what she calls my "physical needs" and her referral to it as some sort of illness or male-only thing), verbal abuse during fights, kicking me out of "her" bed, and a similar wish that she would be "nice" to me more often.
I can tell that trouble is brewing right now. I can hear it in her voice when I talked to her on the phone this afternoon. She is stressed from work, and my radar is active. How am I preparing? I just keep telling myself that all of you are here, on my shoulder, whispering: fight the power! don't take that crap! keep smiling, it'll drive her crazy, you're a good person, walk away! stay out of her sh!t!, etc.
Quote: MsNop: I'm not actually certain what you're getting at.
Are you saying that I have to have a point?
Quote:
Do you mean, what is on my list that I "want" from W? That's pretty clear: The actual list I gave W had things like, respect my boundaries, be a good role model for our kids(e.g. be mom-like to your stepkids, because their mom isn't very mommish), treat me as an adult, more physical touch, make love to me. Her list was manage my ex, stay within budget, follow through on agreements, give her space, continue my spiritual exploration, be honest.
There seems to be a lot more of "unofficial" stuff then on her list-requirements of you. Based on what you share here, she regularly verbally expresses disatisfaction about you, toward you, that are perhaps a part of the generic "follow through on agreements?". Wasn't there a recent critique on the quality of your housecleaning, a snit about money, the lunch sitch?
In other words, I get the impression that *you* get an ongoing commentary/review of your quality of list-satisfying, but I don't ever see where you get to review *her* level of list-accomplishments.
It's like there's ongoing scoring, but she's the only one at the judge's table.
And I didn't mean to imply that your sitch was like the tv folks, that really was meant only in a limited way to respond to the idea that difficult people *must* know what they are doing.
Quote: I can tell that trouble is brewing right now. I can hear it in her voice when I talked to her on the phone this afternoon. She is stressed from work, and my radar is active. How am I preparing? I just keep telling myself that all of you are here, on my shoulder, whispering: fight the power! don't take that crap! keep smiling, it'll drive her crazy, you're a good person, walk away! stay out of her sh!t!, etc.
Let me ask you something - are you allowed to express your stress the same way your wife does?
About 10 weeks for me and MrsGGB, and we saw a lot of each other in those 3 months, and I thought then that we might be moving too fast. That first time turned into a nearly all day sexathon I don't know what happened since, no all day sexathons any more, that's fer sh*t sure.
I don't know what happened since, no all day sexathons any more, that's fer sh*t sure.