And then, with puzzled surprise in her face, she said, "What did you think it meant? That we'd make love?!"
HD, this was truly brutal. She completely exposed her intelligence and intuitiveness, with this intentional misstatement.
I agree with Karen that she has a incredible wall around her. I disagree with whoever said dropping things that give her abandonment 'issues'. It got you to C. Do what works.
She is quite intelligent and from the conversation I see here she is testing and Coding you like crazy. It is really advanced. This would wear out anyone, but you had what it took in the beginning of your R, you have to get back to that mindset you had when you first started dating. GGB's dont giveashititus.
I do believe that conversation is going to drop love units into her, and will cause an EC if it is done correctly. she may be a tough cookie to crack, but I bet it is worth it.
She is telling you what she needs, but not how to do it because she isnt aware, wants you to 'know', or doesnt want to admit it. Deep down women know what they respond too. I walk up and tell them to their face (actually with my body language -more important then the words) and they struggle and weakly deny verbally, but their body language and eyes give them away. I laugh and make fun and poke at them and they turn into fun girls who chatter and flip their hair and try to keep my eyes on them. Now there are different personality types and different techniques to get to them, and as Cobra pointed out I have spent a lot of time learning them. 14 years, with age 19-21 being intensely focused on it.
Im not saying this to brag, and truth be told it becomes easy once you know how,(as any skill does with practice) with people you have no baggage with. Im saying this because when you do understand, figure some of these things out you can make seeming small changes in yourself (how you talk, what you allow her to do/say/treat you like) that dramatically effect the woman and also lower your own stress levels. IMO The U.S. society conditioning......forget it. too tired.
When (IMO) strong, intelligent women say its not the touch its the EC, its true and BS. They need the EC to make themselves open enough for the ML, cause ML drops butt loads of love units into them and makes them feel attached and very vulnerable, open to hurt and disappointment. Look at how GEL, Karen1 and HP lose/lost it for there H's because of the attitudes the H's had. Even Chrissy who is likely the most HD lady(?) here.
Its not easy for strong, independant, intelligent, willfull women to do (submitting/being vulnerable) in the first place, it needs a strong savvy guy to create this feeling to get them to want to. You are this guy, were this guy. He is just misplaced behind some fear right now. I can see him clearly in your posts.
I'm basically at the point where I'm starting to believe myself that it won't make a difference if I tell her everything or not...but I'll be able to live with myself as an honest man.
very very close to the right attitude. Now is the time to not care about the outcome, just like you didn't when you first started dating. You had your way of doing things and didnt care if she took it or left it. This is not the same as giving ultimatums, pounding on tables in anger, or lashing out in biting sarcasm.( )
You are still thinking, living in fear of her blowup over lunch and possible repeats in the future. SOF'INGWHAT. Her reaction should have made you smile because of its predictability. I know the repo guys didnt come knocking because of her messed up budget.
GEL and Lil made some great comments. You should take them to heart.
however using a modified version of GEL's approach wont work for you IMO.
my feelings for you will continue to fade and eventually die. If that happens, I will be gone. Not physically, because I am committed to staying together for better or worse. But emotionally, I will be gone from this marriage."
She will not respect you for placing your needs lower then hers. She will not think this is manly or strong. Men and women are emotionally different, need different inputs to have feelings of attraction for the other. If you take this tact it will have the complete opposite effect you want. She is a trained, succesful lawyer and understands the need to maintain the assertive upper hand to succeed. She will not relinquish this without a real fight or token struggle. She will to someone she respects. She is your wife and you dont want to have to compete with her in this manner.
I understand that feeling, but you can either increase your position of power in the dynamic and know the you are going to have to deal with her blowups before things get better, ( or worse for that matter- she may not ever submit but then at least she will have left or you will leave. but you will be able to respect yourself in either of these scenarios) or get fedup and leave because she wont ever stop needing you to be strong.
I thought about decoding her, but I dont see how it will help untill you get the right attitude and frame of mind. I know you have good frame control skills and a wicked sharp sense of humor. Use them, have fun with it, your not getting any with your current 'tactics', might as well amuse yourself.
Thanks for dropping in, bf. I often think about the SSM people when I'm about to confront W. I'd imagine a little Nopkins or a little Corri or a little HP sitting on my shoulder, whispering advice and encouragement in my ear. Or, kicking my butt.
I want you there, too. I look back on some of the emails I exchanged with W when we first met, and I think, "what happened to that ballsy guy?" I need to find him again.
One question: You said that if I used the Modified-GEL approach, she will not respect me because I'd be putting her needs above mine. In actuality, I'd be placing my kids' needs for stability above my needs. How does that rate? Maybe it doesn't matter. To her, I'd be playing the martyr, and nobody loves a martyr.
I am curious, was W this bent on avoiding any physical contact with you before you married? Maybe in your earlier posts you discussed this, I don't remember. I can't imagine she was or I could not see you getting married to begin with. I am having a really hard time with what happens to these marriages that the physical contact stops. I know alot of things can happen, health problems, emotional problems........... and on and on, but dang, those of us who do not change are expected to just live with whatever changes our spouses have. Ok, babbling here, was just curious about that one question. I have to agree with whoever said your W is fully aware what the C meant by "us" time, and is acting dumb. Should be an interesting conversation in the next C meeting.
Well, we had been chatting for about three weeks on email and phone, and then we had met face to face once, at a coffee shop. And yes, we stayed up all night and ML after a dinner out on our first real date.
I wonder what was different then? Why she seemed to enjoy physical touch so much?
I know all about the brain chemicals and blah blah, but I would think that only a person who reallllly likes physical touch would be so eager to do that on the first date, kwim?
Too weird!
At least you know she's got it in her.
Fwiw, H and I didn't ML for about 3 months. It was torture. LOL
here.
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DAMN..................